How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
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01-10-2014, 06:51 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(01-10-2014 06:41 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 03:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  What evidence do you have for "intellect is fundamental to reality and has always existed"?

If it didn't come into existence naturally, where did it come from?
Without offering an answer to that, you have nothing to offer - you explain nothing.

I said, "maybe intellect is fundamental to reality and has always existed"(not sure why you left that "maybe" out....its a little underhanded don't you think?). I did not assert that intellect is fundamental to reality so there is no need for me to provide evidence.

Not dishonest; I'm asking what evidence you have for even suggesting it. Without any reason to suppose it, it is useless speculation.

Quote:You asserted that even if intellects can create other intellects, there must be some first intellect that came into existence via some natural process. What is your evidence for this? Without offering an answer to that, you have offered nothing to this discussion....you have explained nothing.

You're back to not recognizing infinite regress. If the first intellect didn't arise naturally, then where did it come from?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(01-10-2014 06:43 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 06:01 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Exactly and the ones that are say you are fucking wrong, so shut the fuck up. They didn't do what your claiming they did and even if they did your position is still the least probable. Too bad so sad for you, now go back into exile and take your whack-a-do views with you.

Your name should be Whiskeyeatsdicks.....cause all the experts say you're a cocksucker.

Temper, temper, BlowJob.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2014, 06:54 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(01-10-2014 03:50 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 03:01 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  How is this accomplishment in the lab any different than say Fred Hoyle demonstrating how carbon is created in stars? A wood shoe is the product of intellect. You do not prove that wood shoes are the product of a natural process by showing wood is produced by trees.

You have insisted on pushing your hypothesis based on this one experiment where humans tinkered with genetic material, and an existing biological medium, but you need to prove it with quite a bit more data. The assertion from A to B holds no water. Good try though.

Man tinkers all of the time with products of nature, but it does not mean that all of nature has been tinkered with by some mystical mind. It appears that your need for this to be true is so strong that it makes you look desperate. You mocked us skeptics as not honestly thinking it through, but that is what you need to do yourself. Follow the evidence, dont jump to over-arching conclusions, and remember, we will consider all possibilities for any argument you present as long as the evidence is solid.

Again - A for effort but, no dice.

I haven't put forth a hypothesis. I have argued that there is reason to believe that our lineage of life is the product of an intellect. I'll try to argue it from a different angle. Consider the following conditionals:

A)If lineages of life are the products of nature, then we should observe nature producing lineages of life.

B)If lineages of life are the products of intellects, then we should observe intellects producing lineages of life.

C)If lineages of life are sometimes the products of nature and sometimes the products of intellects, we should observe intellects and nature producing lineages of life.

Are any of the above conditionals unreasonable? No the are all quite reasonable. We don't observe nature producing lineages of life, but we do observe intellects producing lineages of life. This gives us cause to believe that perhaps only only intellects produce lineages of life.
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01-10-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(01-10-2014 06:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 06:43 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Your name should be Whiskeyeatsdicks.....cause all the experts say you're a cocksucker.

Temper, temper, BlowJob.

You're right Chas.....I shouldn't have let him troll me like that.
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01-10-2014, 07:06 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(01-10-2014 06:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  You're back to not recognizing infinite regress. If the first intellect didn't arise naturally, then where did it come from?

Maybe the first intellect always existed. If not all intellects come into existence via a natural process, then there is no reason to think a natural process had bring into existence the first intellect.

Anyways, I'm done for tonight. Stevil...I will answer your last post next time.
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01-10-2014, 07:12 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(01-10-2014 06:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I haven't put forth a hypothesis. I have argued that there is reason to believe that our lineage of life is the product of an intellect. I'll try to argue it from a different angle. Consider the following conditionals:

A)If lineages of life are the products of nature, then we should observe nature producing lineages of life.

Why should we? The conditions on earth today are completely different than the conditions when life started.

You are wrong from the get-go.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2014, 07:14 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(01-10-2014 07:06 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 06:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  You're back to not recognizing infinite regress. If the first intellect didn't arise naturally, then where did it come from?

Maybe the first intellect always existed. If not all intellects come into existence via a natural process, then there is no reason to think a natural process had bring into existence the first intellect.

That's illogical - there is no connection between those concepts.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2014, 07:20 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(01-10-2014 07:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 07:06 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Maybe the first intellect always existed. If not all intellects come into existence via a natural process, then there is no reason to think a natural process had bring into existence the first intellect.

That's illogical - there is no connection between those concepts.

For shame chas you should have brought up this video when you said this




[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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01-10-2014, 07:29 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
This "first intellect" term is nonsense. There was no "first intellect". Intellect is not a thing that is tangible, and the human intellect is, to GREATLY simplify it, the product of many tens of thousands of years of development in which the smartest and most resourceful of our ancestors passed on their genes, and the less intelligent ones were unable to adapt to a (likely) changing environment.

This "first intellect" talk is just pure presupposition. MAYBE the first intellect always existed, but MAYBE....JUST MAYBE...its turtles....ALL THE WAY DOWN.

"You're very clever, young man, very clever, but it's turtles all the way down!"
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01-10-2014, 10:01 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
I have an answer for this. The answer is in the form of a question.

Q: Does it naturally occur in nature?

If your answer is no, than it was intelligently made. If it DOES naturally occur in nature ( Nature being a broad term for the universe) Then it is not made by anyone.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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