How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
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04-10-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 02:40 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Do you have an example of a single non living thing (that was not itself designed by a living thing) that has been observed to design and create other living things?

I do not. But I do have an example of non biological intellects. Watson was better able to navigate around a jeopardy board then the 2 best Jeopardy champions ever.





What Watson demonstrates is that intellect is not exclusive to living things.
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04-10-2014, 02:53 PM
Re: RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 01:33 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You can't credibly claim that the universe is a place that needs no designer within it to eventually produce life until such time as you observe the universe doing it. Too my knowledge abiogenesis has never been observed. Without a foundation in observation the claim is weak, a mere unsupported assertation. However we have observed a lineage of life coming into existence via the hand of intellect. That new lineage will itself be subject to evolution and unless it is dies off or kills off will almost certainly change. For this thread I am happy to concede that such changes evolution makes to the lineage are not designed.
I can easily claim that because any claim of intelligent design presupposes much more than we currently know about the Universe. If there's a designer, what explains the designer's complexity?

Saying that you assume a designer, or infer a designer based on only human-scale comparisons, is admitting you have subordinated your reasoning faculties and have chosen not to support your assertion with evidence.

Additionally, simulations have produced very diverse forms of digital life with no need for a designer. Recently, a simulation of the Big Bang that seemed to be lacking important features of the cosmos gained those features by merely increasing the resolution.

(04-10-2014 01:33 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Infinity is no guarantee...some events can become so improbable that after an infinite number of time there is no guarantee they would come to pass. Here is an example. The goal is to roll a number that is equivalent to the number of sides of the die you are rolling. The wrinkle is that after every unsuccessful trial, the number of sides of the die is increased...by say 1(it could be 10,000 or any n). So you start out with a 6 sided die. You roll. You roll a 3. Since you did not roll a 6 the trial is unsuccessful. Next trial the die now has 7 sides...you roll a 6. Since you did not roll a 7 the trial is unsuccessful. In this situation...since the probability of rolling the a number equal to the number of sides of the die you are rolling continually decreases, it is possible that you will never achieve your goal even after an infinite amount of trials.

It is possible to never achieve your goal, but the possibility of having achieved it would still increase every time.

1/6 +1/7+1/8+1/9+1/10 = 65% chance of having achieved it by the number by 10. The later probabilities don't diminish the earlier probabilities.
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04-10-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 02:50 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-10-2014 02:40 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Do you have an example of a single non living thing (that was not itself designed by a living thing) that has been observed to design and create other living things?

I do not. But I do have an example of non biological intellects.

What Watson demonstrates is that intellect is not exclusive to living things.
Watson shows that living things can create a machine that can perform well at the game of jeopardy in comparison to humans.

But in order to stop an infinite regress issue you need to find an example of a single non living thing (that was not itself designed by a living thing) that has been observed to design and create other living things.

You do that, and you win this argument.
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04-10-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 02:50 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-10-2014 02:40 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Do you have an example of a single non living thing (that was not itself designed by a living thing) that has been observed to design and create other living things?

I do not. But I do have an example of non biological intellects. Watson was better able to navigate around a jeopardy board then the 2 best Jeopardy champions ever.





What Watson demonstrates is that intellect is not exclusive to living things.

Watson is not an intellect.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-10-2014, 03:09 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 02:53 PM)BanalityOfEvil Wrote:  Additionally, simulations have produced very diverse forms of digital life with no need for a designer. Recently, a simulation of the Big Bang that seemed to be lacking important features of the cosmos gained those features by merely increasing the resolution.

Evolution simulators are seeded with a designed digital life form and then left to see what evolution does with it. I don't think you can design an evolution simulator that is just a physics engine.
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04-10-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 02:50 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-10-2014 02:40 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Do you have an example of a single non living thing (that was not itself designed by a living thing) that has been observed to design and create other living things?

I do not. But I do have an example of non biological intellects. Watson was better able to navigate around a jeopardy board then the 2 best Jeopardy champions ever.





What Watson demonstrates is that intellect is not exclusive to living things.

Watson is just simply good at what it was programmed to do. It's not an intellect.
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04-10-2014, 03:12 PM
Re: RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 03:09 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-10-2014 02:53 PM)BanalityOfEvil Wrote:  Additionally, simulations have produced very diverse forms of digital life with no need for a designer. Recently, a simulation of the Big Bang that seemed to be lacking important features of the cosmos gained those features by merely increasing the resolution.

Evolution simulators are seeded with a designed digital life form and then left to see what evolution does with it. I don't think you can design an evolution simulator that is just a physics engine.
That's pretty much what some bioinformaticists do. They create chemistry simulators. Admittedly they start based on existing life, but it's pretty close to what you're talking about.
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04-10-2014, 03:13 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 02:53 PM)BanalityOfEvil Wrote:  It is possible to never achieve your goal, but the possibility of having achieved it would still increase every time.

1/6 +1/7+1/8+1/9+1/10 = 65% chance of having achieved it by the number by 10. The later probabilities don't diminish the earlier probabilities.

You are correct, I was wrong when I said the probability of achieving the goal decreases over time.
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04-10-2014, 03:17 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 03:10 PM)xieulong Wrote:  Watson is just simply good at what it was programmed to do. It's not an intellect.

Watson was good at Jeopardy, but now Watson is diagnosing diseases and recommending treatments. How did Watson shift from being Jeopardy Champ to health care provider? They gave it different books to read.

Watson is a computer program....but not like any computer program that came before it. Its a game changer.
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04-10-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(04-10-2014 03:17 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-10-2014 03:10 PM)xieulong Wrote:  Watson is just simply good at what it was programmed to do. It's not an intellect.

Watson was good at Jeopardy, but now Watson is diagnosing diseases and recommending treatments. How did Watson shift from being Jeopardy Champ to health care provider? They gave it different books to read.

Watson is a computer program....but not like any computer program that came before it. Its a game changer.

Lots of computers were used in diagnosis before the COMPUTER, which IBM programmed. It's not an "intellect". Just like "life", there is no absolute boundary between the computers that came before, and Watson, or life and non-life. Your delineations are totally artificial. Watson is an enhancement due to programming. And of course Blowjob has offered no definitions or proposed boundaries. Just assertions.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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