How does it happen?
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01-05-2014, 04:53 PM
How does it happen?
Fortunately I've never been a believer.

But unfortunately I'll never know what makes these people tick. Within a few pages of Genesis I'm told a story about a talking snake telling a naked woman to eat a magic apple. That alone should be enough for any sane person to shut the book and discard it.

What I mainly want to discuss is how can this be believed? And so adamantly?

I've been wrong about many many things. And will continue to be wrong about other things. But I've got no problem with that because I know I can process information, realise I'm wrong and move on.

Is there something physical in the brain? I don't know. I don't know the power of a religious upbringing and still can't accept that as a good reason to accept blatant fairy tales.

My 6 year old son is already starting to question Santa cos he now realises things don't hold up as he's learning more about the world.

Do religious people even question things? What is the root cause of this madness? It baffles me! And what's more concerning is right now there are Christians who are ahocked that someone Doesn't believe it!

Can anyone help me understand what's wrong with people?
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01-05-2014, 05:09 PM
RE: How does it happen?
Two words; social pressure.

You probably believed in Santa when you were younger? Or can at least appreciate this understanding. You're young, you don't know any better and you're being told by people you trust (your parents) that he is real and all your friends believe in him too.

Now just replace Santa with god and young with *insert age here* and you have your answer. OH But make sure to insert *insert number here* years of constant reinforcement.
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01-05-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: How does it happen?
Religious people are taught these things pretty much since birth. All the ridiculousness seems perfectly normal for them. Parallels can be made to things like Santa and fairy tales, but the key difference is that neither of those things have weekly meetings where a bunch of people sit around and talk about how totally one hundred percent real they are, for sure. Nor do they "work in mysterious ways". And no one will ever go "Your doubts in Santa are just because his evil arch enemy is tempting you so you don't get presents!".


Plus, religion (at least Christianity) teaches you that you are protected by an all powerful being that will give you eternal bliss after you die. Not having religion means acknowledging that bad things can and most likely will happen to you, and that death is the end. It's more pleasant to stick with it.
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01-05-2014, 05:24 PM
RE: How does it happen?
(01-05-2014 04:53 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  Fortunately I've never been a believer.

But unfortunately I'll never know what makes these people tick. Within a few pages of Genesis I'm told a story about a talking snake telling a naked woman to eat a magic apple. That alone should be enough for any sane person to shut the book and discard it.

What I mainly want to discuss is how can this be believed? And so adamantly?

I've been wrong about many many things. And will continue to be wrong about other things. But I've got no problem with that because I know I can process information, realise I'm wrong and move on.

Is there something physical in the brain? I don't know. I don't know the power of a religious upbringing and still can't accept that as a good reason to accept blatant fairy tales.

My 6 year old son is already starting to question Santa cos he now realises things don't hold up as he's learning more about the world.

Do religious people even question things? What is the root cause of this madness? It baffles me! And what's more concerning is right now there are Christians who are ahocked that someone Doesn't believe it!

Can anyone help me understand what's wrong with people?

Indoctrination is a powerful tool, man.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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01-05-2014, 05:24 PM
RE: How does it happen?
Let's not forget about the fear of hell also instilled at a very early age. Hell sounds like a really awful place. Your body on fire... For ETERNITY if you don't do what your religion says, or believe it without question. A very good motivator. I've heard it's usually the last thing theists let go of when switching to atheism.

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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01-05-2014, 05:37 PM
RE: How does it happen?
Pretty basic psychology. The human brain doesn't work on a rational "consider, then decide and reconsider as needed" model, but on a "decide, then rationalize and get defensive when questioned" model. There's a REASON that critical thinking needs to be learned. It's about the exact opposite of instinctive.
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01-05-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: How does it happen?
The theist mentality is to accept new ideas that are in keeping with what they already think is true, or to reject them. They never go back and question what they think they know in light of new evidnce because they do not see the need to. Their underlying assumptions feel right to them because they are used to them. This is why theists target young children who don't know any better. They have a much harder time trying to convince people once they grow up. In their eyes though there is nothing wrong with targeting young children because they are saving them.
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01-05-2014, 05:45 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2014 05:55 PM by WindyCityJazz.)
RE: How does it happen?
(01-05-2014 04:53 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  Fortunately I've never been a believer.

But unfortunately I'll never know what makes these people tick. Within a few pages of Genesis I'm told a story about a talking snake telling a naked woman to eat a magic apple. That alone should be enough for any sane person to shut the book and discard it.

What I mainly want to discuss is how can this be believed? And so adamantly?

I've been wrong about many many things. And will continue to be wrong about other things. But I've got no problem with that because I know I can process information, realise I'm wrong and move on.

Is there something physical in the brain? I don't know. I don't know the power of a religious upbringing and still can't accept that as a good reason to accept blatant fairy tales.

My 6 year old son is already starting to question Santa cos he now realises things don't hold up as he's learning more about the world.

Do religious people even question things? What is the root cause of this madness? It baffles me! And what's more concerning is right now there are Christians who are ahocked that someone Doesn't believe it!

Can anyone help me understand what's wrong with people?

Indoctrination. It's a very powerful tool. One thing religious institutions know better than anyone is that the most powerful tools for controlling people are fear and ignorance. Christianity uses this method to the fullest extent, because those are the cardinal rules:

1. If you don't worship the Christian god, you will go to hell and suffer for eternity.
2. Never question Christianity. The Bible is the word of God, who is infallible, and his word is NOT to be questioned. In other words: "Believe what we tell you to believe and shut the fuck up."

It certainly helps when a person is in an environment where nearly everybody shares their religious views. If you're raised to believe in Christian dogma, and 99% of the population in your country believes Christian dogma to be true, then it's perfectly logical to these people that Christianity is obviously right, and the few others that are not Christians are obviously wrong. This proves to be even more powerful when these people all agree that belief in their god is the basis for morality, and without him morality is nonexistent.

Now, when somebody is brought up to believe in this garbage from birth, then they want to hold onto it because it gives them comfort. The thought that something that they have been brought up to believe in their entire life is bullshit scares the shit out of them, especially when they have been brought up to believe that their morality is entirely based on their religious beliefs, and people who are not religious are evil.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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01-05-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: How does it happen?
(01-05-2014 05:24 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Let's not forget about the fear of hell also instilled at a very early age. Hell sounds like a really awful place. Your body on fire... For ETERNITY if you don't do what your religion says, or believe it without question. A very good motivator. I've heard it's usually the last thing theists let go of when switching to atheism.

For me the last thing to go was the belief in a deity, for whatever reason. That reason probably being that I'd like to see some of the people I've known who are no longer with us again, more than the fear of hell. I can't quite put a finger on the exact cause. Mixture of stuff, maybe. I stopped listening to hellfire-n-brimstone types long ago, thinking hell was reserved for the REALLY awful people!

So, obviously, the christian specific dogma was the first layer of shit I shed. Gawd spoke his word into imperfect ears, and they (being merely mortals) misinterpreted it.

Then I began to think that all deities everywhere were actually gawd. That Allah, God, Zeus, etc... were all the same, but having spoken to people here and there, at different times, in different cultures, had simply been portrayed differently (not necessarily incorrectly)!

But at the end of the day, whether the vitriol poured out by the bucket load, or just a sprinkle, when I tried to express my own evolving beliefs, everyone was adamant that "no, that's wrong! This is how it is, and that's because the bible says so! You're just being silly".

At some point it just... hit me? (I don't know how to put it in words, and can't remember the exact time table) But even in situations where outright hatred wasn't being tossed out, the divisiveness, and fear-mongering just made me sick! I didn't have to read any book; it was that crap that just made me go "you know what? I'll go buy some poisonous snakes & you guys can keep speaking tongues till rapture! I'm out".

Having made that decision all on my own without needing to read any Dawkins, or Hitchens, I now think you actually have to have something psychologically wrong with you to even NOT wish there WASN'T a gawd DURING the entire time you spend as one of the faith Undecided
Anyway! Sorry about the rant Confused

Religious Indoctrination: should be made illegal!

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01-05-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: How does it happen?
(01-05-2014 05:45 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  The theist mentality is to accept new ideas that are in keeping with what they already think is true, or to reject them. They never go back and question what they think they know in light of new evidnce because they do not see the need to. Their underlying assumptions feel right to them because they are used to them. This is why theists target young children who don't know any better. They have a much harder time trying to convince people once they grow up. In their eyes though there is nothing wrong with targeting young children because they are saving them.

My former sibling made his 1.75 year old child recite a blessing for a meal. Kid had no clue as to the meaning of the words but he sure knew what he was supposed to parrot back.

Star 'em young and they follow without question.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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