How does it happen?
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01-05-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: How does it happen?
Because thinking is hard. I think it is the fear of thinking for oneself that attracts so many people to religion. No man can live without a philosophy and religion gives you the whole package and all you have to do is accept it. You don't have to do the heavy mental lifting of integrating and validating ideas with reason. Just let go and let god.

Of course it is an anti reason, anti man and anti life philosophy but hey everyone else accepts it. who am I to think for myself, after all pride cometh before a fall right. All those people can't be wrong, they tell themselves.

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01-05-2014, 10:30 PM
RE: How does it happen?
The people I know generally fall into one of two camps.

The first, and most common, are people who were taught as children that there is a reason for bad things, that there is a reason for their existence, that there is an all powerful being that will make sure everything will be alright in the end, that death is not the end for them or their loved ones, and that the miracle of existence of us and the universe is the proof. Those people are extremely reluctant to let go of that faith because they see it as taking away all the meaning and security and hope they have in life and replacing it with "shit happens and then you die and none of it matters".

The second group are people who were raised without religion or faith and found themselves facing a strong need to find a reason and find meaning in life greater than just themselves and humanity. Those people made the jump to belief because they were desperately searching for something to believe in and religion claimed it could fill that need.
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01-05-2014, 11:43 PM
RE: How does it happen?
For some reason, childhood is a time when people tend to pump a lot of shit into kids heads. And usually they absorb it all.

Because that's basically all children do... Absorb information. A child learns extremely quickly, and this information is often deeply imprinted on their memories. Unfortunately, children often don't develop the ability to think critically and independently until much older....

A child's early learning is based on an instinctive trust in whatever the big people say. Its just basic infant survival... Juvenile mammals have to learn incredibly fast and rely on their parents for instruction. To critically evaluate everything we're taught at that stage under natural selection would be detrimental to survival.

So that's how this stuff takes root. We automatically accept the world we're presented with... If that world includes talking snakes and invisible gods, then that's what takes root.

I think its why people have such a hard time deonverting... Its realising that everything you thought you knew about the universe is false.

Its the same as grief... When someone dies one of the most common thoughts people have is that they simply can't believe that person no longer exists. Never more so than when that person has been present their entire lives...

The human brain likes to have a nice neat model of how things are... It hates it when that is disrupted or changed. Hence why people would rather accept a lifelong fantasy than have their whole world turned on its head.

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01-05-2014, 11:56 PM
RE: How does it happen?
Long answer:
Watch this series. Pretty much nails it.




Short answer:
42

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02-05-2014, 06:14 AM
RE: How does it happen?
(01-05-2014 04:53 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  What I mainly want to discuss is how can this be believed? And so adamantly?

...

My 6 year old son is already starting to question Santa cos he now realises things don't hold up as he's learning more about the world.

It's mostly this:

[Image: 1135238941_tVKGy-L.jpg]

Now, picture that instead of your parents telling you Santa isn't real when you get older, that they keep telling you he's real. Everyone keeps telling you he's real, and you can go to weekly meetings to talk about it. Adding to the story, you're told that if you stop believing, you'll be punished. When you look at all the things that don't make sense, people will give you several different answers:
  • You just have to have more faith in Santa. We all know he's real. It doesn't have to make sense; just believe.
  • The Santa stories aren't literal. He's the intangible spirit of Christmas, and he doesn't actually fly around the world in one day each year. Science and Santa aren't incompatible if you're not a Santa-literalist!
  • The anti-Santa "science" is just a conspiracy by liberal, anti-Santa scientists trying to kill Santa. Who are you going to believe? The word of Santa or the word of man?

And there you have it. Having been Christian for 30 years, I can assure you that once you're in that deep, it can be really fuckin hard to break out. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch!
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02-05-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: How does it happen?
It's a 3-pronged attack:

1. Indoctrination at a very early age when children will accept anything they are told.
2. Fear - they threaten you with hell so you will be reluctant to question anything.
3. They keep you ignorant by cherry picking what information you are told, defining what sources have "the truth", and discouraging looking elsewhere (see #2).

And, by the way, the Bible does a pretty good job of contributing to #3. I think a lot of people start reading it and give up concluding "hell no, I'm not reading that ". Between it's size and it's poorly written, boring style, it can be pretty daunting to make yourself sit through a whole reading of it.

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02-05-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: How does it happen?
So yeah...

In this thread I am/have these things:

1) social pressure
2) being taught Christianity from birth
3) indoctrination (9)
4) fear of hell (2)
5) no critical thinking
6) unaccepting of new ideas if they conflict with current beliefs
7) do not question my beliefs (2)
8) ignorant (2)
9) believe morality is dependent on whether a person believes in God
10) unable to part with beliefs that comfort me
11) scared of the possibility that my beliefs are untrue
12) have something psychologically wrong with me
13) find thinking hard
14) afraid of thinking for myself
15) was desperately trying to find something and turned to religion
16) have cognitive dissonance

Consider
Interesting...

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02-05-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: How does it happen?
(01-05-2014 04:53 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  Fortunately I've never been a believer.

But unfortunately I'll never know what makes these people tick. Within a few pages of Genesis I'm told a story about a talking snake telling a naked woman to eat a magic apple. That alone should be enough for any sane person to shut the book and discard it.

What I mainly want to discuss is how can this be believed? And so adamantly?

I've been wrong about many many things. And will continue to be wrong about other things. But I've got no problem with that because I know I can process information, realise I'm wrong and move on.

Is there something physical in the brain? I don't know. I don't know the power of a religious upbringing and still can't accept that as a good reason to accept blatant fairy tales.

My 6 year old son is already starting to question Santa cos he now realises things don't hold up as he's learning more about the world.

Do religious people even question things? What is the root cause of this madness? It baffles me! And what's more concerning is right now there are Christians who are ahocked that someone Doesn't believe it!

Can anyone help me understand what's wrong with people?

In my experience and from my observations, religion is embraced by many different types of people for many different reasons. let’s look at a few categories shall we?

1) They were brought up in a religious atmosphere/family so it is ingrained in their way of life, and they have either fully embraced it because to not do so would get one ostracized from their family, friends, community, OR they are too scared to think otherwise because unholy thoughts are the devil's work.

2) They are elderly, and the elderly are naturally scared of their inevitable demise and turn to the church for comfort. The church LOVES this as they are the bread and butter of the offering plates...fear is a great industry in america.

3) They are simply gullible..ever heard the old adage, the stupid and their money are soon parted?...yeah, kind of goes along with that.

4) They are uneducated, and do not know any better, because they get their belief system from reverend johnson who cherry picks phrases out the bible to drive home his agenda that day...the faithful wave the bible and yet few have actually read it.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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02-05-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: How does it happen?
(02-05-2014 02:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So yeah...

In this thread I am/have these things:

1) social pressure
2) being taught Christianity from birth
3) indoctrination (9)
4) fear of hell (2)
5) no critical thinking
6) unaccepting of new ideas if they conflict with current beliefs
7) do not question my beliefs (2)
8) ignorant (2)
9) believe morality is dependent on whether a person believes in God
10) unable to part with beliefs that comfort me
11) scared of the possibility that my beliefs are untrue
12) have something psychologically wrong with me
13) find thinking hard
14) afraid of thinking for myself
15) was desperately trying to find something and turned to religion
16) have cognitive dissonance

Consider
Interesting...

I know, Kingsy... just get it all out... it's ok.
You must feel relieved to finally get it out into the open.

It's ok. We won't say anything until you are ready for it. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-05-2014, 05:56 PM
RE: How does it happen?
(02-05-2014 02:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So yeah...

In this thread I am/have these things:

1) social pressure
2) being taught Christianity from birth
3) indoctrination (9)
4) fear of hell (2)
5) no critical thinking
6) unaccepting of new ideas if they conflict with current beliefs
7) do not question my beliefs (2)
8) ignorant (2)
9) believe morality is dependent on whether a person believes in God
10) unable to part with beliefs that comfort me
11) scared of the possibility that my beliefs are untrue
12) have something psychologically wrong with me
13) find thinking hard
14) afraid of thinking for myself
15) was desperately trying to find something and turned to religion
16) have cognitive dissonance

Consider
Interesting...

You know the evidence so you can't hide behind ignorance. You just choose to willfully ignore it and live a delusional life style believing in a non-existent all powerful invisible psychotic wizard. So number 8 is off the table. The rest are probably true though.

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