How far can we go with artificial selection?
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08-04-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 03:01 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  Or,we could just geneticly modify them to have wings,just ike we created biolumiscent fish,mice,cats and sheep

Actually, that's what I thought the thread would be about after reading the title. Applied to humans though Drinking Beverage

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08-04-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 03:02 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 03:01 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  Or,we could just geneticly modify them to have wings,just ike we created biolumiscent fish,mice,cats and sheep

Actually, that's what I thought the thread would be about after reading the title. Applied to humans though Drinking Beverage

Would that work? If so we can make dragons a whole lot quicker. I want to die after flying a reptile damnit.

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08-04-2014, 03:11 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 03:05 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 03:02 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  Actually, that's what I thought the thread would be about after reading the title. Applied to humans though Drinking Beverage

Would that work? If so we can make dragons a whole lot quicker. I want to die after flying a reptile damnit.

Unless we fully decode DNA, I doubt it. We're still pretty far from that.

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08-04-2014, 03:20 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 03:11 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 03:05 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Would that work? If so we can make dragons a whole lot quicker. I want to die after flying a reptile damnit.

Unless we fully decode DNA, I doubt it. We're still pretty far from that.

well,we can. Seeing that reptiles and birds are kinda closely related and stuff,it should work.
If we know what genes are needed to have a funtional wing,we could extract it and then replace all the inactive genes of said lizard with these genes.
But it would be trial and error,just as we tried modifying pigs to have less fats,but in the end we had to kill them because they walked square and had pain and stuff.

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08-04-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 03:20 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 03:11 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  Unless we fully decode DNA, I doubt it. We're still pretty far from that.

well,we can. Seeing that reptiles and birds are kinda closely related and stuff,it should work.
If we know what genes are needed to have a funtional wing,we could extract it and then replace all the inactive genes of said lizard with these genes.
But it would be trial and error,just as we tried modifying pigs to have less fats,but in the end we had to kill them because they walked square and had pain and stuff.

Well bird were related to dinosaurs and you can say they are still reptiles in which birds still have I diapsid like skull.

[Image: crow_raven_bird_skull_3_by_InKi_Stock.jpg]

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08-04-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 03:24 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 03:20 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  well,we can. Seeing that reptiles and birds are kinda closely related and stuff,it should work.
If we know what genes are needed to have a funtional wing,we could extract it and then replace all the inactive genes of said lizard with these genes.
But it would be trial and error,just as we tried modifying pigs to have less fats,but in the end we had to kill them because they walked square and had pain and stuff.

Well bird were related to dinosaurs and you can say they are still reptiles in which birds still have I diapsid like skull.

[Image: crow_raven_bird_skull_3_by_InKi_Stock.jpg]

no. They have too many different features to count them and reptiles as one group

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08-04-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 03:28 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 03:24 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  Well bird were related to dinosaurs and you can say they are still reptiles in which birds still have I diapsid like skull.

[Image: crow_raven_bird_skull_3_by_InKi_Stock.jpg]

no. They have too many different features to count them and reptiles as one group

Oh I know, they are two different classes. I still consider them reptiles because they still share traits with dinosaurs in which are themselves are reptiles. To me you can't grow out of your evolutionary ancestory(i.e we are still vertabrates and tetrapods)

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08-04-2014, 03:34 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 01:54 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  I always wondered what we can do with it? I thought what if our species spent millions of years making lizards to evolve into dragons, with wings and can walk on both two and four legs. Or if we make a new weird animal, in fact I want to have a aquatic animal that evolved from cats. It sounds retarded but I wonder if over the very long time, if our species lives that long, we can make said animals real.

... Dragons?

As in the European badass, fire spitting winged lizards of doom?

That would be cool, but I'd bet that even if humans went into the genes specifically and selected, we'd not get that. I mean, it'd be the same thing as breading a pegasus, the musculature is simply no there for one and how would we even go about influencing in that direction?

Not to mention the whole internal flamethrowers... We wouldn't even be able to go the transgenic route on that one!

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08-04-2014, 06:45 PM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
(08-04-2014 03:34 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 01:54 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  I always wondered what we can do with it? I thought what if our species spent millions of years making lizards to evolve into dragons, with wings and can walk on both two and four legs. Or if we make a new weird animal, in fact I want to have a aquatic animal that evolved from cats. It sounds retarded but I wonder if over the very long time, if our species lives that long, we can make said animals real.

... Dragons?

As in the European badass, fire spitting winged lizards of doom?

That would be cool, but I'd bet that even if humans went into the genes specifically and selected, we'd not get that. I mean, it'd be the same thing as breading a pegasus, the musculature is simply no there for one and how would we even go about influencing in that direction?

Not to mention the whole internal flamethrowers... We wouldn't even be able to go the transgenic route on that one!

The fire would have to be more than 10 million years before it happens

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09-04-2014, 04:38 AM
RE: How far can we go with artificial selection?
The reason it took hundreds of millions of years to turn a bed of marine slime into (among other things) a human being is because the evolution was undirected. But it is a straightforward mechanical (or chemo-mechanical) process to directly alter a marine slime cell's chromosomes into human ones. Tedious, but achievable in days or hours, if both chromosome groups are fully mapped.

Once DNA architecture is fully understood, designing and hatching a flying lizard would be an exercise of months, most of that time spent working out the necessary physical engineering to provide proper musculature, wing area surface, control mechanism and so on. Creating the organism itself, its egg, would take the least time.

By applying the mechanisms by which insects metamorphise across days rather than years, I don't see why a flying lizard couldn't be designed to grow from hatchling to eagle sized adulthood in a week or less.

What will take years is developing that thorough understanding of DNA architecture.

What we do with it once we have it is a scary question. Probably not make flying lizards. Other priorities will be met first, such as producing birthmarks designed as tatoos of Justin Bieber MMMCIII.

As far as dragons go, making one large enough to saddle up and ride may not be doable on this planet. You'd need a cellular structure able to withstand temperatures well above water's boiling point to metabolize a fuel with the same efficiency as an airplane engine, which is the only means of getting high mass density structures (like lizards and people) off the ground.

But by the time we know enough to actually make a dragon, we may be living on planets with thick atmospheres and low gravity where getting aloft doesn't require much energy. You may have to schedule your ride for some future lifetime rather than this one.
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