Poll: How much did the opportunity to influence the religious views of others -or- to have your own religious views tested by others factored into your coming to this site?
I'm a theist and changing the beliefs of atheists is my mission.
I'm a theist and I'm as willing to test my own beliefs as I am in challenging the beliefs of others.
I'm a theist who isn't too likely to change my mind but neither do I care if atheists adopt my beliefs.
I'm an atheist who isn't too likely to change my mind but neither do I care if theists lose their beliefs to reflect my own.
I'm an atheist and I'm as willing to test my own beliefs as I am in challenging the beliefs of others.
I'm an atheist and changing the beliefs of theists is my mission.
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How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
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09-09-2017, 07:07 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2017 07:22 PM by whateverist.)
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
(09-09-2017 04:26 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I’ll try to change a person’s convictions if those convictions fall into the range of fundamentalism. I think people with fundamentalist leanings (whether they’re fundamentalist theists, or fundamentalist atheists) are dangerous to the human condition.

I didn’t come here to challenge anyone’s way of thinking, nor do I find that my way of thinking has been successfully challenged by anyone here so far. I’d be happy to test my own beliefs, and I do think some people have tried to challenge me, but really, they’re speaking a totally different “language” and it often doesn’t resonate. As comfortable and confident as I feel in my own religious beliefs, if some Yeshiva-Jew-turned-atheist presented a case to me, I think that person would at least be able to put their views in terms that I can understand. I’d actually welcome that.

I follow Judaism because it makes the most sense to me, it doesn’t contradict what I see in the natural world (and agrees with what I see), and the tenants of Judaism have a positive effect on my life. I don’t do it out of fear or desire to please anyone else. I do it because I like it. It’s very hard for people to argue a case against that, try as they might.


I have to confess a strong distaste for fundamentalism in any form. Unthinking devotion to unsupported doctrine and avoidance of any but approved sources is intellectually distasteful.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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09-09-2017, 07:17 PM
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
I am under no illusions that atheism will save / transform the world. Atheism is essentially the absence of theism; what I'm interested in is what will replace theism, and that isn't atheism. It's empiricism, rationalism, respect for learning / education / wisdom / inclusiveness / tolerance / compassion.

The problem is that all the stuff I listed in the last sentence is wrongly associated with theism, and wrongly claimed to be dependent on theism for its encouragement, if not its very existence. In my view, these things flourish far better in the proper secular environment.
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09-09-2017, 07:52 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2017 08:23 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
(09-09-2017 04:07 PM)whateverist Wrote:  Beyond this thread's title, what I'd really like to know is how much the opportunity to influence the religious views of others -or- to have your own religious views tested by others factored into your coming to this site.

Put it this way: If there were no theists posting at this site, I would still be here. But if there were only theists posting at this site, I wouldn't be here.

I am not open-minded to changing my atheism. I have already spent too much of my life exploring theistic options in too much detail, and found them all disappointing in the end. Atheism is the only position on the supernatural that ever made complete sense to me.

For this reason, I will also try to change the opinions of theists who post at this site if I'm given half a chance. I think they are wasting their time on supernatural beliefs and mythology, just as I did, and wish to save them the same kind of regrets. Do unto others and all that. I assume if they come to an atheist site, they want to hear what atheists have to say.

But that's not the primary reason I'm here. I want to spend my time with people I respect and can learn from. In return, I give them the best I have to offer.
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09-09-2017, 08:03 PM
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
I don't know. It was really the philosophy and science forums discussions that drew and kept me coming here for years

Though the crazies of the skeptical & conspiracy threads have always been more fun arguing that theism arguing. Even when it comes to a theist debate it's more about x other views I interest in than the theism

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"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-09-2017, 08:11 PM
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
(09-09-2017 07:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  I am not open-minded to changing my atheism. I have already spent too much of my life exploring theistic options in too much detail, and found them all disappointing in the end.

Totally agree. Call me jaded but I almost welcome an original theistic outlook, I would love to be challenged or shocked by some "have you ever considered...?" theistic viewpoint. Damn you Copernicus, Galileo, Darwin, etc, ect....

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09-09-2017, 08:44 PM
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
The Jews.

I'm here to convert the Jews






... to Islam.

Wink

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09-09-2017, 09:10 PM
How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
I see no reason for leaving atheism as religion is abhorrent tool of social control and there is not a iota of evidence for existence of something called god.

I don't care about influencing views of others. If some people preffer to wallow in delusion it is their problem.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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09-09-2017, 10:05 PM
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
(09-09-2017 04:07 PM)whateverist Wrote:  Don't worry. Everyone gets to stay regardless of how they answer. (Okay, full disclosure; I'm not someone who can give you the boot regardless.) I'm just curious to know to what degree folks are here to test their convictions or to influence the religious views of others. That's it.

Everyone loves answering polls, right? If you can find an answer response that best approximates your own stance that would really be peachy. Of course some people are polls-intolerant or afflicted with poll induced Turrets syndrome. You guys do what you need to do.

Beyond this thread's title, what I'd really like to know is how much the opportunity to influence the religious views of others -or- to have your own religious views tested by others factored into your coming to this site. Please choose all that apply.

1) I'm a theist and changing the beliefs of atheists is my mission.

2) I'm a theist and I'm as willing to test my own beliefs as I am in challenging the beliefs of others.

3) I'm a theist who isn't too likely to change my mind but neither do I care if atheists adopt my beliefs.

4) I'm an atheist who isn't too likely to change my mind but neither do I care if theists lose their beliefs to reflect my own.

5) I'm an atheist and I'm as willing to test my own beliefs as I am in challenging the beliefs of others.

6) I'm an atheist and changing the beliefs of theists is my mission.


I am unable to answer any of your questions. They all involve abstractions.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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10-09-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
(09-09-2017 07:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(09-09-2017 04:07 PM)whateverist Wrote:  Beyond this thread's title, what I'd really like to know is how much the opportunity to influence the religious views of others -or- to have your own religious views tested by others factored into your coming to this site.

Put it this way: If there were no theists posting at this site, I would still be here. But if there were only theists posting at this site, I wouldn't be here.

I am not open-minded to changing my atheism. I have already spent too much of my life exploring theistic options in too much detail, and found them all disappointing in the end. Atheism is the only position on the supernatural that ever made complete sense to me.

That is realistic. Theoretically, in the face of undeniable evidence, I hope I'd adjust my views. But that just isn't going to happen.


(09-09-2017 07:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  For this reason, I will also try to change the opinions of theists who post at this site if I'm given half a chance. I think they are wasting their time on supernatural beliefs and mythology, just as I did, and wish to save them the same kind of regrets. Do unto others and all that. I assume if they come to an atheist site, they want to hear what atheists have to say.

I think this shows an inclination toward generosity on your part.

If there was one word I could convince theists to view as I do it would be "supernatural". It is a logical 'abomination'. How so many xtians, while confessing the ways of God are beyond them, can still insist that those ways involve pure magic, is beyond me.


(09-09-2017 07:52 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  But that's not the primary reason I'm here. I want to spend my time with people I respect and can learn from. In return, I give them the best I have to offer.

I get that. That's why I didn't want to make this too broadly about why we're here. Social interaction centered on the exchange of ideas seems primary.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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10-09-2017, 10:24 AM
RE: How important is influencing the religious views of others to your being here?
Save a blow to the head (and I've already had one, complete with amnesia and concussion, so am pretty safe) or a deity dropping by and saying hi, I can imagine no scenario in which I become religious. Having survived the virus, I have lifelong immunity.

I have zero interest in changing anyone's opinion about anything. I do enjoy discussing pretty much everything under the sun with (intelligent) people, but I don't do it to persuade them of anything, to change their mind or to "win". I just enjoy the exchange of ideas for its own sake. I *will* call out stupidity and vile beliefs and attitudes when I come across them (if I can be arsed).

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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