How is agnosticism viewed?
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28-12-2016, 06:10 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(28-12-2016 04:22 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  DLJ,

I have come across people who I thought to be atheists who told me they were "certain" that there is no God.

Many folks here talk about "agnostic atheists" which implies to me a lack of certainty on the question. If so, is it correct to regard atheists as being certain or is there a more accurate term to describe those people who are certain that there is no God?

D.

I'd call then gnostic atheists or hard atheists, but it's not always so clear. If the question is Yahweh then I'm a hard atheist because the evidence of how the god was fabricated over time is, for me anyway, compelling enough to be certain that it does not exist.

If the question is whether there is anything that exists that deserves to be called a god then I'm a bit less certain. I see no evidence at all that there is but without a specific definition I can draw no specific conclusions. Calling myself an agnostic atheist is kind of like calling evolution by natural selection a theory though --- it isn't that there is any actual doubt but it's always good to remind myself that I don't know everything.

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28-12-2016, 06:16 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
Hi!

Your self-description as I read it is similar to my position. There are plenty of people here who'll welcome you, including me. We have a few outright theists here who are well-accepted members of this community.

Yes, there are some who will quibble about whether you're a "true atheist," but you don't have to engage. (Unless you enjoy debating issues like that, in which case there are many threads devoted to the question, "what is true atheism?") If you're more interested in support and entertainment, you will find plenty of that here.
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28-12-2016, 06:20 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(28-12-2016 04:22 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  
(28-12-2016 02:05 AM)DLJ Wrote:  So this thread is not about how and why each of us choose the labels and definitions that we do (although anecdotes can be useful)... it's about helping our new friend, Saul, regain his equilibrium and cope with the dizziness following his fall from certainty.

Wink

DLJ,

I have come across people who I thought to be atheists who told me they were "certain" that there is no God.

Many folks here talk about "agnostic atheists" which implies to me a lack of certainty on the question. If so, is it correct to regard atheists as being certain or is there a more accurate term to describe those people who are certain that there is no God?

D.

Well, I guess that would be "gnostic atheism". Although, I like the way that Yakherder described it ... starting from a position of not knowing / scepticism ... leading to a general "meh" about god being real and stuff.

Point being that this thread is about Saul's ... er ... is "anguish" too strong a word? ... caused by the realisation that he might have taking a wrong turn 20 years ago.

For him, perhaps it's best not to worry about the labels and just describe the emotions he's going through, and the beliefs that he's re-evaluating.

Or ... I can move the thread out of this section into the Atheism/Theism section for a discussion about the terminology etc. (rather than the feelings).

I'm easy either way.

Smile

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28-12-2016, 09:06 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
Agnosticism is only a valid response to gnostic atheists, not atheism as a whole. A common problem is agnostics lump all atheists together as gnostic atheists. There are atheists who do not have that level of confidence that gods do not exist.

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28-12-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(27-12-2016 09:57 PM)BCSaul Wrote:  New to TTA. Former pastor and college professor who has nearly come full circle from 20 years of conservative evangelicalism to now strident agnosticism. I don't consider myself an atheist at the moment. I don't know if there is a god or not. I know I no longer ascribe to the god that evangelical theology promotes, but as far as god's existence in general, I simply don't know. Twenty years is a long time to undo. How are agnostics viewed in the atheist community? Is the ultimate goal to become atheist, or is there acceptance for those who remain doubtful but not necessarily certain?

Agnostics are best viewed through 3D glasses.

I don't know if there are pink sparkly unicorns, bust I dismiss the notion as it's incoherent. There is no coherent idea/definition of a go, therefore the notion is dismissed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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28-12-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(27-12-2016 09:57 PM)BCSaul Wrote:  New to TTA. Former pastor and college professor who has nearly come full circle from 20 years of conservative evangelicalism to now strident agnosticism. I don't consider myself an atheist at the moment. I don't know if there is a god or not. I know I no longer ascribe to the god that evangelical theology promotes, but as far as god's existence in general, I simply don't know. Twenty years is a long time to undo. How are agnostics viewed in the atheist community? Is the ultimate goal to become atheist, or is there acceptance for those who remain doubtful but not necessarily certain?
Welcome to TTA. In this community, there is no requirement regarding your beliefs. We even have some theists who are just as accepted as anyone else. What is important is mostly a willingness to engage in honest discussion. The biggest things that are frowned upon are proselytizing, unsupported claims, refusal to honestly consider alternative viewpoints, etc.

Twenty years is a long time. Congratulations on coming this far. Thumbsup

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28-12-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(28-12-2016 09:06 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  There are atheists who do not have that level of confidence that gods do not exist.

False atheists like those false xians.

I thought the thread was about how atheists view agnostics?

OP, am I wrong?

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28-12-2016, 09:50 PM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(28-12-2016 02:05 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(28-12-2016 01:31 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Dude, nobody cares.

OK, that made me chuckle out loud Big Grin

If I can put it less succinctly... this is the Personal Issues section.

So this thread is not about how and why each of us choose the labels and definitions that we do (although anecdotes can be useful)... it's about helping our new friend, Saul, regain his equilibrium and cope with the dizziness following his fall from certainty.

Wink

I thought that's what we were (or I was, rather) doing.

As someone who successfully walked away from a fundamentalist belief and upbringing, I thought my story and the way I chose to define things might help him sort through it.

But please, all y'all who've never been through it, keep going on how those of us who have shouldn't speak up to try to help someone else going through what we went through. Tongue

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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28-12-2016, 10:45 PM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(27-12-2016 09:57 PM)BCSaul Wrote:  New to TTA. Former pastor and college professor who has nearly come full circle from 20 years of conservative evangelicalism to now strident agnosticism.

Greetings! Welcome to the forum!

(27-12-2016 09:57 PM)BCSaul Wrote:  How are agnostics viewed in the atheist community?

There are communities of atheists, but I don't think there is one "atheist community". It's been my experience here that one is judged more by character/posting than by labels.

(27-12-2016 09:57 PM)BCSaul Wrote:  Is the ultimate goal to become atheist, or is there acceptance for those who remain doubtful but not necessarily certain?

Ultimate goal? Nah. In my time here I've not heard any talk like that. It's not a thing like guiding someone along a path. Mostly people ask questions (like you are doing) and others (like us in this thread) try to answer them. Many posters will tell you their beliefs and/or opinions, but you will have to sort out your own beliefs on your own time. No one can help you do that.

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29-12-2016, 03:05 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2016 03:10 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(28-12-2016 04:05 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(28-12-2016 09:06 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  There are atheists who do not have that level of confidence that gods do not exist.

False atheists like those false xians.

I thought the thread was about how atheists view agnostics?

OP, am I wrong?

Yes i think that was his topic, but under the false premise (at least thats how it looked ot me) that atheism and agnosticism are mutually exculsive, both being the same category but atheism being the "stronger" disbelief than agnosticism. The common mistake of categorizing them both as statements of knowldge/belief and not separate (and thus making combinations of both possible).

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