How is agnosticism viewed?
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30-12-2016, 04:16 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(30-12-2016 04:07 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

To Banjo, Dworkin, Whateverist and BCSaul.

I'm quite happy to designate m'self an 'Aynostic'.

I also call m'self a 'Non-theist' some times as well.

There might, indeed, be a Great Old One looking in on our reality as a conossure might look into a restaurant fish tank. Tongue

About those 'other' religious type claims? They just don't match the reality we see about us.

Cheers.

Mate, nobody cares.

See what I did there? Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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30-12-2016, 09:35 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(29-12-2016 09:39 PM)Ohio Sky Wrote:  Most atheists I know label themselves as such because they are unconvinced by the evidence presented in support of any one god's existence, but are open to the remote possibility that they could be wrong, or that such evidence may be provided someday. I know very few people who will say that they are 100% sure that there is no intelligent being behind the universe or our existence. You can't prove a negative, which is one of religions few remaining advantages. [...]

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with this.

My stance has been—for more than fifty years—that there is absolutely zero evidence to even suggest the possibility of the existence of God or gods. I am personally assured that there is no "intelligent design" or "designer" behind the universe or our existence. Mine is a totally scientific perspective on both, with no place for mythology or superstition, or wishful thinking.

And religion doesn't have an "advantage" in the mistaken belief that one cannot prove a negative. Proving a negative merely requires inductive logic (and if you disagree with that, then by default you're gonna have to accept the existence of unicorns, leprechauns and angels). Many theists use the nonsensical can't prove a negative claim as a primitive arguing point against atheists—you can't prove God doesn't exist, therefore he does. LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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30-12-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
And I also have to disagree with the claim made by several folks here that agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive. Of course they are—according to someone (like me) who's an unequivocal atheist. I'd be offended if someone described me in any terminology relating to agnosticism or degrees thereof.

Try describing a Christian or a Muslim or a Rastafarian couched in terms of agnosticism and see how far you get LOL.

There's a world of difference between saying "Maryanne might be pregnant" and saying "Maryanne is pregnant".

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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30-12-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
I'm an agnostic atheist. I won't have a problem with anyone honest enough to say, "I don't know."
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30-12-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(30-12-2016 03:50 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(29-12-2016 11:36 PM)whateverist Wrote:  Are you treating agnosticism and atheism as mutually exclusive?

I consider gods characters in fiction.

People who do not, without any evidence are fuckwits.

Period. IMO. Smile

Satisfied?


I'm satisfied. I also consider gods characters of fiction, but fiction of the non-deliberate variety. As such I think they might very well exist as participants in the consciousness of some believers. That and the conviction that no gods literally exist apart from the psyches of believers are my point of view. But I'm more than willing to acknowledge that my perspective is only one among the billions of fuckwit's roaming the planet.

Being agnostic for me is copping to personal limitations and incomplete possession of the facts. I have sufficient facts to form my own perspective but I don't grant universal objective status to my perspective just because it is mine. To my way of thinking agnosticism and atheism go hand in hand.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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30-12-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
At work.

(30-12-2016 09:50 AM)SYZ Wrote:  There's a world of difference between saying "Maryanne might be pregnant" and saying "Maryanne is pregnant".

Indeed there is.

However as an 'Agnostic' or 'Non-theist' I am saying something more along the lines of;

"I don't know if Mary is pregnant. ....... but, given what we know of reality and Mary the possibility of her being in such a state seems so close to nil as to be impossible. But Cthulhu might have been feeling frisky back then. So, we'll keep an open mind."

The 'Hard' Atheist is more saying things along the lines of;

"That that they know Mary isn't pregnant because Mary is, in fact, a bloke."

Tongue
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30-12-2016, 04:38 PM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(27-12-2016 09:57 PM)BCSaul Wrote:  New to TTA. Former pastor and college professor who has nearly come full circle from 20 years of conservative evangelicalism to now strident agnosticism. I don't consider myself an atheist at the moment. I don't know if there is a god or not. I know I no longer ascribe to the god that evangelical theology promotes, but as far as god's existence in general, I simply don't know. Twenty years is a long time to undo. How are agnostics viewed in the atheist community? Is the ultimate goal to become atheist, or is there acceptance for those who remain doubtful but not necessarily certain?

Agnosticism and Atheism are neither mutually inclusive nor mutually exclusive.
Agnosticism is about knowledge
Atheism is about belief

So if you don't believe in God but you don't really know for sure, then that is probably the most healthy position to be in. The moment you claim knowledge either way, you carry the burden of proof.
See one of the problems with religion is that it is being taught so much there that you have to know and that not knowing is not acceptable. The first step to relax about these matters is really just to accept the fact that not knowing something is absolutely fine, absolutely acceptable.
And the next step is the realization that you are already an atheist in all religions but that one you follow.

About how agnosticism is viewed in the atheist community. I think at least here at TTA, people welcome that very much because it is the reasonable position. I personally welcome that as well. Of course there are always a few people who claim knowledge but really it's not reasonable in regards to the existence of a god or gods.
You can though, have a strong opinion along the lines of, "I believe that the possibility of the existence of a real god is as high as the possibility of the existence of a real flying spagetti monster." This still doesn't claim absolute knowledge as the option that either really exists is probably equal, but you are keeping the door unlocked to get your mind changed given proper evidence.

I hope that makes sense.

Also welcome to TTA Big Grin

cheers

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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30-12-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(30-12-2016 04:07 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

To Banjo, Dworkin, Whateverist and BCSaul.

I'm quite happy to designate m'self an 'Aynostic'.

I also call m'self a 'Non-theist' some times as well.

There might, indeed, be a Great Old One looking in on our reality as a conossure might look into a restaurant fish tank. Tongue

About those 'other' religious type claims? They just don't match the reality we see about us.

Cheers.

Pee,

This I like. Smile My old philosophy prof used to say that God might be an evil demon touting a flea circus around the universe and we are the fleas.

D.
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30-12-2016, 07:07 PM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
I'd like to welcome the OP. I'm not so concerned about what he thinks he is or isn't, it appears he is indeed thinking and therefore a welcome addition.
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31-12-2016, 02:06 AM
RE: How is agnosticism viewed?
(30-12-2016 07:07 PM)skyking Wrote:  I'd like to welcome the OP. I'm not so concerned about what he thinks he is or isn't, it appears he is indeed thinking and therefore a welcome addition.

+1 from me. Welcome to the forum, BCSaul. Thumbsup

D.
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