How language of liberals is helping populists.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-08-2016, 01:38 AM
How language of liberals is helping populists.
Today I read interesting article about refugees, radicalization of language in regard to them and Poles growing fear about Muslims*. It had some good points - like for example comparing language used in "debates" about abortion to language used in regard to refugees: there are no people who are pro choice but only child murderers, and there are no emigrants but terrorists and parasites. Authors of said article are right, such style of expression must be fought, otherwise there will be no debate only shouting.

However it's something else that caught my interest and showed why populist can thank liberals, why right wingers see others as weak and unable to do anything:

Quote:Imagine that someone is coming to you with a [drawn] knife. He is going with knife, cause he is desperate, hungry. So maybe you give him something so he won't stab you. Give him bread.


So, don't defend yourself, don't even run but meekly do what aggressor demand. Why not incapacitate the attacker and feed or help in more permanent way those who aren't threatening you? Is it any wonder that language of combat is gaining popularity when liberal answer to threat is to surrender to it?

*Article is in Polish only - http://kulturaliberalna.pl/2016/08/02/cz...ej-debaty/

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
By the time the guy is coming after you with a knife chances of dialogue are zero. Take him out. But of course there's a need to address the reasons that people become radicalised if one wants to live in a peaceful world.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like morondog's post
02-08-2016, 03:05 AM
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
(02-08-2016 02:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  By the time the guy is coming after you with a knife chances of dialogue are zero.

Yes. And that's why I find quote in my OP idiotic. When I read such nonsense I'm not really surprised at nationalist primitives gaining power. Their language is sometimes borderline fascist but it speak about defiance not submission and people like this.

I would say that it is case of language corrupting thoughts but Poland is not exactly paragon of open-mindedness and reasoned debate. Liberals and "leftist" speaking only about acceptance* isn't helping.

(02-08-2016 02:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  But of course there's a need to address the reasons that people become radicalised if one wants to live in a peaceful world.

Fear is one of such reasons I think. Fear and politicians trying to use other countries troubles to gain more control over population. Poland has no trouble with refugees yet language used in regards to them is quite radicalized and tied with popular concepts of "defending christianity" or national identity.


*It's not only about refugees. There is hardly a serious critique of church or government policy which isn't helpful to the poor. Left wing lost it's rhetorical edge and it's afraid of it's own shadow.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 03:11 AM
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
Of course, the rise of the right wing movements and rhetoric in Europe is a direct consequence of the left wing unwillingness or inability to address legitimate issues and concerns of the general population.
When one side is dismissing your concerns or scream in your face that you are racist for having those concerns or similar , stick their heads in the sand and even try to cover up things that cause concern , a lot of people will turn to the only side that is addressing their concerns and become radicalized themselves because then radical approach is the only option they are given and the only rhetoric they are exposed to.
This shit is so fakn predictable. And unavoidable.

After the Nice attack French PM Manuel Valls said that French will have to learn to live with terrorism. He was heavily booed on the commemoration of the victims because of that. Next year when Marine Le Pen becomes French president people will say "omg, I didn`t know French were so right wing orientated". They are not, they will only reject the pure defeatism the other side is offering.
I am waiting to see what is going to happen this September in Austria when they will have a re-run or presidential elections , Norbert Hofer who is a serious right wing nationalist lost the first time by the smallest of margins. Ten years ago this was unimaginable, ten years ago he wouldn`t receive 5% of the votes.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Slowminded's post
02-08-2016, 03:22 AM
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
(02-08-2016 03:11 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Of course, the rise of the right wing movements and rhetoric in Europe is a direct consequence of the left wing unwillingness or inability to address legitimate issues and concerns of the general population.
When one side is dismissing your concerns or scream in your face that you are racist for having those concerns or similar , stick their heads in the sand and even try to cover up things that cause concern , a lot of people will turn to the only side that is addressing their concerns and become radicalized themselves because then radical approach is the only option they are given and the only rhetoric they are exposed to.
This shit is so fakn predictable. And unavoidable.

After the Nice attack French PM Manuel Valls said that French will have to learn to live with terrorism. He was heavily booed on the commemoration of the victims because of that. Next year when Marine Le Pen becomes French president people will say "omg, I didn`t know French were so right wing orientated". They are not, they will only reject the pure defeatism the other side is offering.
I am waiting to see what is going to happen this September in Austria when they will have a re-run or presidential elections , Norbert Hofer who is a serious right wing nationalist lost the first time by the smallest of margins. Ten years ago this was unimaginable, ten years ago he wouldn`t receive 5% of the votes.

I more or less agree but in my opinion not only left is at fault. Nationalist using scare tactics and being willing to radicalize language to gain power are another problem. After all it's not like it will solve anything - calling refugees parasite will change nothing, it may only stir further problems. Dehumanization of other people does not lead to anything good.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Szuchow's post
02-08-2016, 03:27 AM
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
But the aggressor isn't asking for bread. It's not a demand ones giving into.

Why must I be Ladd? via da Tapatalk

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 03:33 AM
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
(02-08-2016 03:27 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  But the aggressor isn't asking for bread. It's not a demand ones giving into.

It don't matter what aggressor is asking - or not asking - for. Appropriate answer for aggression isn't submission as quote suggest.

I must confess I don't understand this - liberals and leftist in Poland do not have a great heritage of fighting for betterment of lives of others. But resorting to such language is really low point.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-08-2016, 03:48 AM
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
(02-08-2016 03:22 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(02-08-2016 03:11 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Of course, the rise of the right wing movements and rhetoric in Europe is a direct consequence of the left wing unwillingness or inability to address legitimate issues and concerns of the general population.
When one side is dismissing your concerns or scream in your face that you are racist for having those concerns or similar , stick their heads in the sand and even try to cover up things that cause concern , a lot of people will turn to the only side that is addressing their concerns and become radicalized themselves because then radical approach is the only option they are given and the only rhetoric they are exposed to.
This shit is so fakn predictable. And unavoidable.

After the Nice attack French PM Manuel Valls said that French will have to learn to live with terrorism. He was heavily booed on the commemoration of the victims because of that. Next year when Marine Le Pen becomes French president people will say "omg, I didn`t know French were so right wing orientated". They are not, they will only reject the pure defeatism the other side is offering.
I am waiting to see what is going to happen this September in Austria when they will have a re-run or presidential elections , Norbert Hofer who is a serious right wing nationalist lost the first time by the smallest of margins. Ten years ago this was unimaginable, ten years ago he wouldn`t receive 5% of the votes.

I more or less agree but in my opinion not only left is at fault. Nationalist using scare tactics and being willing to radicalize language to gain power are another problem. After all it's not like it will solve anything - calling refugees parasite will change nothing, it may only stir further problems. Dehumanization of other people does not lead to anything good.

Yes, that is a problem, but you will always have nationalist who use scare tactics , they are unavoidable part of political spectrum on any political scene in every country and they always will be, using scare tactics and radicalization of the language is in their nature and they will always jump on the chance to promote their ideology , but it is the left who is now providing them with much bigger audience that they would otherwise have.

Instead of nationalists being a small laughing stock of a political scene , now they are a political power to be considered.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Slowminded's post
02-08-2016, 03:50 AM (This post was last modified: 02-08-2016 10:45 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
I think there's plenty of blame to go around. Immigrants who don't assiimliate voluntarily arouse resentment in native populations which don't want to change their ways to accomodate newcomers; and native populations retreat into xenophobia when confronted with unknown folks.

Where one sits on the breach is indeed correlated with one's political outlook. For my money, the solution lies in the middle, with newcomers working to adapt to a new milieu, and natives being willing to accept newcomers. Being a centrist, politically, this view comes easily to me. Castigating entire groups has not, I don't think, ever led to a useful solution.

Being a centrist, I tend to think that useful solutions are most often found in common ground. But it's hard to find common ground when you've defined an outgroup.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post
02-08-2016, 03:59 AM
RE: How language of liberals is helping populists.
(02-08-2016 03:48 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Yes, that is a problem, but you will always have nationalist who use scare tactics , they are unavoidable part of political spectrum on any political scene in every country and they always will be, using scare tactics and radicalization of the language is in their nature and they will always jump on the chance to promote their ideology , but it is the left who is now providing them with much bigger audience that they would otherwise have.

Left is at fault, sure. But using scare tactics isn't something that I would call being responsible. Making population afraid solve nothing and that is what right wing nuts do. Their fault is as great as is one of the left - both sides instead of looking for solutions try to play on emotions, left side with abysmal results.

But in a way you're right, I don't expect something constructive from nationalists so no disappointment there. It's liberals and left who truly failed in allowing to hijack political language by extremists.

(02-08-2016 03:48 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Instead of nationalists being a small laughing stock of a political scene , now they are a political power to be considered.

Even during times of The Polish People's Republic nationalist weren't laughing stock of politics - they simply hide behind internationalism. And after transformation in '89 nationalism didn't wane.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: