How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
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14-01-2017, 07:24 PM
How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
I am finding myself in a bit of a maze when trying to "prove" the inaccurate statements in the Qur'an. You often hear Muslims claim how their book contains scientific knowledge that could not have possibly be discovered in that age, ergo some superior intelligence must have dictated it.
The problem when dealing with this issue often is the constant argument that the translation is simply not good enough. English simply cannot encompass the complexity of the Arabic language. Some words have multiple meanings and therefore a certain verse can mean a lot of things. Added to that, is the ever lasting argument of "you are taking it too literally". That verse does not mean that literally, it is merely a poetic expression to show a truth.

You will often hear how some verse that is false when read literally, when read in a poetic way it can express a truth. For example, the Qur'an does not say that the Earth was created before the stars(2:29); it doesn't even mention stars in that verse. The word for "heavens" can also mean "above" so what this poetic verse tells us is that the Earth's atmosphere was created after the Earth formation. You see how there is no contradiction but correct information when you look at it that way ?
Forgive me if the argument is misrepresented, I cannot remember how it goes exactly but as far as I remember, I heard some such defense.

Are there any of our peers dealing with this subject or Islam in particular ? I remember seeing Aron Ra having a brief exchange with that Hamza guy but other than that, not much. Maybe I have not looked enough ?
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14-01-2017, 07:36 PM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
Personally I think that the Qur'an is largely plagiarized from earlier works that were circulating in the area, including the Tanakh, New Testament and various Greek works such as the writings of the physician Galen (whose flawed work on human embryology is reproduced in the Qur'an almost verbatim, with humans growing from "a clot of blood.") I've also been informed that it's written in the style of Arabic poetry from around 500-600 CE, but cannot verify this.

I don't take the Qur'an seriously at all, and I certainly wouldn't take anything it says literally.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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14-01-2017, 07:44 PM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
(14-01-2017 07:24 PM)momo666 Wrote:  I am finding myself in a bit of a maze when trying to "prove" the inaccurate statements in the Qur'an. You often hear Muslims claim how their book contains scientific knowledge that could not have possibly be discovered in that age, ergo some superior intelligence must have dictated it.
The problem when dealing with this issue often is the constant argument that the translation is simply not good enough. English simply cannot encompass the complexity of the Arabic language. Some words have multiple meanings and therefore a certain verse can mean a lot of things. Added to that, is the ever lasting argument of "you are taking it too literally". That verse does not mean that literally, it is merely a poetic expression to show a truth.

You will often hear how some verse that is false when read literally, when read in a poetic way it can express a truth. For example, the Qur'an does not say that the Earth was created before the stars(2:29); it doesn't even mention stars in that verse. The word for "heavens" can also mean "above" so what this poetic verse tells us is that the Earth's atmosphere was created after the Earth formation. You see how there is no contradiction but correct information when you look at it that way ?
Forgive me if the argument is misrepresented, I cannot remember how it goes exactly but as far as I remember, I heard some such defense.

To the Title question. On a scale from 1 - 10. 1 being not at all and 10 being fall down and give praise. I'd say a 1.

Are there any of our peers dealing with this subject or Islam in particular ? I remember seeing Aron Ra having a brief exchange with that Hamza guy but other than that, not much. Maybe I have not looked enough ?

Yes. Thou you may not see it as much as Christians, simply because in the US. They're not as prominent and the christian community. and any atheist that step out in the saudia rabia, or iran regens will most likely be killed.

Lawrence Krauss did a debate, and there is a few former Muslims that have youtube channel. Logik, and the bible reloaded crew is doing it as well.

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14-01-2017, 07:53 PM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
(14-01-2017 07:24 PM)momo666 Wrote:  ...
Some words have multiple meanings and therefore a certain verse can mean a lot of things. Added to that, is the ever lasting argument of "you are taking it too literally". That verse does not mean that literally, it is merely a poetic expression to show a truth.
...

My stock reply is "You do realise that this misinterpretation thing is a weakness not a strength, right?"

Check out the abjad writing system to get some insight as to why they use this excuse.

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14-01-2017, 08:13 PM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid169445

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-01-2017, 08:15 PM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
(14-01-2017 07:24 PM)momo666 Wrote:  For example, the Qur'an does not say that the Earth was created before the stars(2:29); it doesn't even mention stars in that verse. The word for "heavens" can also mean "above" so what this poetic verse tells us is that the Earth's atmosphere was created after the Earth formation. You see how there is no contradiction but correct information when you look at it that way ?

My response to arguments like is OK, if you know that the atmosphere formed after the planet and you read the verse with that knowledge you can make it sound like that is what it means. If you did not know that the planet formed first would that verse give you that information? If not, then either it is too vague to be useful or the writer didn't mean what you are trying to pull from it. Either way, it doesn't look good for something from an omniscient author trying to pass along information.

It's the same crap Christians pull with Genesis.

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14-01-2017, 08:47 PM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
Medical books describing how to perform any number of surgeries are not written in a poetic expression hoping to convey some nugget of truth that the reader must interpret.

If a god doesn't scribe medical books then more than likely, there isn't any valuable information that he cares to pass along.

If the height of a gods' medical info is "please wash your hands", then you aren't dealing with a god.

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14-01-2017, 08:53 PM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
(14-01-2017 08:47 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Medical books describing how to perform any number of surgeries are not written in a poetic expression hoping to convey some nugget of truth that the reader must interpret.

If a god doesn't scribe medical books then more than likely, there isn't any valuable information that he cares to pass along.

If the height of a gods' medical info is "please wash your hands", then you aren't dealing with a god.

How come the ancient Japanese knew that fungi could be used as antibiotics and Jebus/Allah never bothered to mention it ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicinal_fungi

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14-01-2017, 08:59 PM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
(14-01-2017 07:24 PM)momo666 Wrote:  I am finding myself in a bit of a maze when trying to "prove" the inaccurate statements in the Qur'an. You often hear Muslims claim how their book contains scientific knowledge that could not have possibly be discovered in that age, ergo some superior intelligence must have dictated it.
The problem when dealing with this issue often is the constant argument that the translation is simply not good enough. English simply cannot encompass the complexity of the Arabic language. Some words have multiple meanings and therefore a certain verse can mean a lot of things. Added to that, is the ever lasting argument of "you are taking it too literally". That verse does not mean that literally, it is merely a poetic expression to show a truth.

You will often hear how some verse that is false when read literally, when read in a poetic way it can express a truth. For example, the Qur'an does not say that the Earth was created before the stars(2:29); it doesn't even mention stars in that verse. The word for "heavens" can also mean "above" so what this poetic verse tells us is that the Earth's atmosphere was created after the Earth formation. You see how there is no contradiction but correct information when you look at it that way ?
Forgive me if the argument is misrepresented, I cannot remember how it goes exactly but as far as I remember, I heard some such defense.

Are there any of our peers dealing with this subject or Islam in particular ? I remember seeing Aron Ra having a brief exchange with that Hamza guy but other than that, not much. Maybe I have not looked enough ?

It's all post-hoc rationalization, you don't have to give it any thought at all to summarily dismiss every bit of it.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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15-01-2017, 12:07 AM
RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
With a 'literal' bucket of salt.

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