How long is too long?
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27-11-2014, 06:54 PM
How long is too long?
I was just wondering how long is too long for a religions likelihood to wear out and it falls to the realm of mythology?

It's going to happen to all of them. It's only a matter of time. They don't see it now because their religion is special. It's the true religion. But it will die and become the fantasy we all know it is already.

But how long is it going to take. The religions of today are special in that they were already (for the most part) in existence when the word could travel instantaneously. This way of communicating changed things. Before a religion could die due to a lack of momentum or because it was stomped out by a bigger more violent religion.

Now we live in a time where in a good chunk of the world you can be religious in whatever way without fear of it being over run by another. Yes you can see all sides to every argument now a days with just a click but it's also easier to find like minded people so you don't have to conform to reality.

I don't know how the religions of today will finally kick over into the age of mythology, and I'm not sure how it will happen since memes infect a culture so easily and quickly.

When do you think it will happen, and what do you think will be the final tipping point?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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27-11-2014, 07:32 PM
RE: How long is too long?
I went looking to see if I could find info on how long certain religions lasted or have lasted and found the following:

Hinduism - from what I understand since 3000 BCE and still going strong

Judaism - Judaism claims a historical continuity spanning more than 3,000 years. Judaism has its roots as a structured religion in the Middle East during the Bronze Age.[14] Of the major world religions, Judaism is considered one of the oldest monotheistic religions.[15][16] The Hebrews / Israelites were already referred to as "Jews" in later books of the Tanakh such as the Book of Esther, with the term Jews replacing the title "Children of Israel".[17] Judaism's texts, traditions and values strongly influenced later Abrahamic religions, including Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith.[18][19] Many aspects of Judaism have also directly or indirectly influenced secular Western ethics and civil law.[20]

Based on these two ongoing examples it could be a long time. Weeping

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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27-11-2014, 07:57 PM
RE: How long is too long?
That's something worth researching. It reminds me of a book I read (and need to re-read) about how and why languages live and die.

It seems to me that it depends on many factors. For one, in what area is it found? If it's a remote area, obviously it will die out faster. One of the reasons Christianity and specifically Catholicism is still around is because of Constantine and Theodosius. Had the Roman Empire not been as powerful, I don't think it would have the power it does now.

For the Hinduism umbrella, it started in a densely populated area and basically absorbed various other religions. So there's something to be said about population.

I think the main reason we see it as taking so long is, like evolution, we're in the middle of it. The past seems faster. We perceive it as taking a long time, but the past seems like it happened faster.

It's like when you arrive on a long trip.
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27-11-2014, 08:18 PM
RE: How long is too long?
Thing is, in the past religions didn't just fade away and die, they were stamped out of existence with violence and fear.

Otherwise, they evolve gradually...

Christianity drove Paganism underground, where it eventually pretty much died. Though it's since seen a resurgence with the whole counter culture and hippie movement... But its a very watered down form of it.

I can't see Christianity dying out completely, unless Islam really does take over the world. If anything, it will evolve in order to avoid ridicule in the face of science and logic.

The God aspect of Christianity may well go by the wayside... Take God out of Christianity and you've pretty much got Humanism. But it'll be Humanism with a side order of mysticism/spirituality.

I think it's already most of the way there... The resurgence in fundamentalism just looks like a reaction to the trend to me. But change usually goes in one direction, and rarely if ever goes in reverse... The way things are going, it won't be long before fundamentalist Christianity will seem like little more than a collection of isolationist cults.



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28-11-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: How long is too long?
I'd say it's more an evolution thing than a radiation thing. It's not measured in time. It's measured in hospitability of the social environment. If the environment changes little or not at all, the religion will last forever. If the environment changes at a moderate pace, in a way that critically threatens the religion only occassionally, then the religion will evolve to survive (or counter the changes in the environment). However, if the environment changes suddenly, removing the religion's niche or filling that niche with an abler competitor faster than the religion can adapt, THEN the religion will die out.
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28-11-2014, 02:09 AM
RE: How long is too long?
Also depends on education. More of poor, uneducated people -> More religion 'cos it's a good, proven crowd control tool. Religion would die out a lot faster if larger chunks of the population were educated. Problem is, no real incentive to educate people more - if you do, all they want is more stuff for themselves and better standard of living. Also makes them harder to control. Better for a politician to pay lip-service to the idea of improving education, and cheerfully make a complete mess of it. That way still ride gravy train into sunset.

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28-11-2014, 04:06 AM (This post was last modified: 28-11-2014 04:22 AM by Dom.)
RE: How long is too long?
Yes, education, and availability of information. When I grew up, there was no web. You had to find and read books. The only library within walking distance was the one the local catholic church made available. Guess what their books talked about.

What a different world we have today.

Also, the big melting pot. Big urban areas have so many different people with different background and religions, they are bound to become aware that theirs makes no more sense than others. School kids will be exposed to them all. It will make a difference, same as it made with racism.

Thirdly, we now have more atheists coming out of the closet than ever. It has become "a conversation". You have activists shocking people. No different from the gays, women and potheads in the 70s. The big deconversion has begun, but there will always be religions. They will just be in the minority.

I predict the turn to secularism will start when today's teenagers are raising kids, and secularism will be stronger than religion some 40 years from now.

That is, if the fanatics don't start a world war over it. Tongue

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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28-11-2014, 07:14 AM
RE: How long is too long?
"How long is too long?"

Oh. I thought ...
never mind. Angel

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein It is objectively immoral to kill innocent babies. Please stick to the guilty babies.
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28-11-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: How long is too long?
if more people are reconverting than the number of people converting to it then its on the slow path to deaths doorstep

the higher the number of people leaving per year the sooner it will be

does anyone have any data ? I'd like to know the ratio between the numbers deconverting each year and the number of people joining religion each year
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28-11-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: How long is too long?
I think the problem is education and substitution. I don't about you guys, but in my small town of ~20,000 I can drive around for 5 minutes and see about 15 churches. I've noticed they're being more aggressive in their messages. (kinda like an a bf or gf being a little more controlling when they realize the relationship is on the way out the door.)

Education will come as it increasingly harder to hide the obvious. The harder part though is the community factor that people get in churches. I would bet the reason most people go isn't because they want to worship an imaginary friend, but because it gives them sense of community. Once more secular organizations grow, you'll start seeing them replace churches.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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