How many of you go to church?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-08-2012, 11:27 PM
How many of you go to church?
I married a reformed christian. She likes to go to church when we have time and everyone at the church that has met me, knows I am an atheist. I attended the Alpha class that was offered and through every difficult question I could come up with. The pastor of the church was the leader of my group after watching the videos. He was not able to answer the questions I asked to my satifaction, but was happy to try anyway. I also went to lunch with him one day to talk and the last thing he said to me before we went separate ways was "To tell you the truth, I am really more of an agnostic.". I played it down by saying "You, nah.", which was my version of sticking my fingers in my ears and humming. I doubt that many religious leaders (at the top) are actually believers. I didn't want him to tell me he is not a believer, because I was not sure I could hide it from my wife. My wife has stated that if it was the case that the pastor was not a believer, we would have to find a new church. I get the feeling that most churches would not welcome me being around poking holes in their beliefs. Since they have a welcoming attitude, I can get along with them in the interest of keeping my wife happy. If we switched to a more hostile church, I am pretty sure we would be asked to leave. I love a good debate, especially when they fight back. I need advise. I would like to meet with him again and ask about what he said. Do you think it is too late? Did I blow my chance to get the truth? Also, should I hide something like that from my wife if he is honest with me?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2012, 11:32 PM
RE: How many of you go to church?
(08-08-2012 11:27 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I married a reformed christian. She likes to go to church when we have time and everyone at the church that has met me, knows I am an atheist. I attended the Alpha class that was offered and through every difficult question I could come up with. The pastor of the church was the leader of my group after watching the videos. He was not able to answer the questions I asked to my satifaction, but was happy to try anyway. I also went to lunch with him one day to talk and the last thing he said to me before we went separate ways was "To tell you the truth, I am really more of an agnostic.". I played it down by saying "You, nah.", which was my version of sticking my fingers in my ears and humming. I doubt that many religious leaders (at the top) are actually believers. I didn't want him to tell me he is not a believer, because I was not sure I could hide it from my wife. My wife has stated that if it was the case that the pastor was not a believer, we would have to find a new church. I get the feeling that most churches would not welcome me being around poking holes in their beliefs. Since they have a welcoming attitude, I can get along with them in the interest of keeping my wife happy. If we switched to a more hostile church, I am pretty sure we would be asked to leave. I love a good debate, especially when they fight back. I need advise. I would like to meet with him again and ask about what he said. Do you think it is too late? Did I blow my chance to get the truth? Also, should I hide something like that from my wife if he is honest with me?

Agnostic isn't synonymous with atheist. It can be, of course, but it isn't necessarily. I took a Philosophy of Religion course and the teacher, despite being a Christian, called himself an agnostic Christian -- he meant that in comparison to fundamentalist Christian. He believed in God, but he was still open-minded and reasonable about the question.

So no, I don't think you blew your chance. It's quite possible that he's open to talking about what he believes in, and maybe even proud of being agnostic.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Starcrash's post
08-08-2012, 11:39 PM
How many of you go to church?
What denomination is the church? You said she's Reformed. Is it a Reformed Church of America (RCA)? I wouldn't be surprised if Starcrash is on the right track. He's probably using the term agnostic in a soft sense, he believes a lot of stuff about god, but he allows room to be proven wrong. When I was a Fundie, I would have written him off as a luke-warm, wishy washy liberal Christian who only knows about God, but didn't have a "real" relationship with Jesus.
If its a more liberal RCA church, your wife might be cool with the knowledge that her pastor has doubts. Depends on how much of the Kool-aid she's been drinking.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Erxomai's post
09-08-2012, 12:07 AM
RE: How many of you go to church?
(08-08-2012 11:39 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  What denomination is the church? You said she's Reformed. Is it a Reformed Church of America (RCA)? I wouldn't be surprised if Starcrash is on the right track. He's probably using the term agnostic in a soft sense, he believes a lot of stuff about god, but he allows room to be proven wrong. When I was a Fundie, I would have written him off as a luke-warm, wishy washy liberal Christian who only knows about God, but didn't have a "real" relationship with Jesus.
If its a more liberal RCA church, your wife might be cool with the knowledge that her pastor has doubts. Depends on how much of the Kool-aid she's been drinking.

As I said, my wife said she will want to switch to another church. I am not comfortable with announcing what church it is, as he asked me not to talk to anyone about what we talk about. I feel I can do that here, as no one knows who I am. If I say what church it is, who knows if someone from there comes on to this site.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2012, 12:13 AM
RE: How many of you go to church?
"My wife has stated that if it was the case that the pastor was not a believer, we would have to find a new church."

What? Why would you have to find a new church? If she's getting out of it what she wants, who cares about you? Or am I missing the point of this church thing? Blink

Shouldn't church be a guidance system to help people, help themselves and each other? Isn't it just to provide comfort, support, and guidance in helping each individual to realize and embrace their own humanity?

I mean, it's pretty much what a shrink does, except they have bake sales, rummage sales, and food drives, right? Oh shit... am I missing the point of shrinks, too? Undecided

Anyway Birdguy - if you want to talk to this pastor guy, I'm sure he would welcome the chance to hang with someone a little less needy and a bit more inquisitive. As for your wife... if she's getting out of church what she wants, maybe she should be happy you're going at all. If she asks, just tell her this pastor guy seems pretty cool and has a refreshing perspective. Thumbsup

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kim's post
09-08-2012, 12:28 AM
RE: How many of you go to church?
Imagine that you spent your life researching and studying about a type of rocket that had never been fired, had lots of test runs and failed most of them.
You work for a company that is getting money from the government to do all this testing and you know that this rocket has too many flaws to ever see the light of day on a launch pad.

You do your testing and may even give speeches about the benefits this rocket has over other models out there, but deep down, you know it's a lie and so do lots of other people.
But they all keep their mouth shut because the money coming in pays the bills and you could go to work for another rocket firm, but the equipment you are using is outdated and the methods are the same methods you've used for years.
You'd be laughed out of any serious interview that you would go into, so you stay where you are.

This is what some pastors must face. They put so much time and effort into studying so much history and biblical thought that they know none of it makes a lick of sense.
So many flaws and and failures and it's no wonder that you just shake your head after a while and at the very least say "I don't know"

As for telling your wife. You are already putting up with church to make her happy.
Let her have her happiness and let your pastor have his privacy while you give him your trust.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Rahn127's post
09-08-2012, 12:51 AM
RE: How many of you go to church?
Certainly seek some clarity about the dude's position before exposing the hypocrisy to your wife.

But the real question is... do you want to bring her out of her delusion? I suspect that if you want to change her, you would not have married her. In which case, an inward chuckle at the irony of the situation will have to satisfy you.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
09-08-2012, 01:07 AM
How many of you go to church?
If you speak with him again, let him know about The Clergy Project. It's a highly confidential support site for pastors who no longer believe. They are very supportive to pastors who can't see a way out of the church because thats the only kind of work and education they've had. It could give him a chance to speak to others with his dilemma, and perhaps provide an Exit strategy so he can get out, if he so desires.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Erxomai's post
09-08-2012, 01:12 AM
How many of you go to church?
(09-08-2012 12:28 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Imagine that you spent your life researching and studying about a type of rocket that had never been fired, had lots of test runs and failed most of them.
You work for a company that is getting money from the government to do all this testing and you know that this rocket has too many flaws to ever see the light of day on a launch pad.

You do your testing and may even give speeches about the benefits this rocket has over other models out there, but deep down, you know it's a lie and so do lots of other people.
But they all keep their mouth shut because the money coming in pays the bills and you could go to work for another rocket firm, but the equipment you are using is outdated and the methods are the same methods you've used for years.
You'd be laughed out of any serious interview that you would go into, so you stay where you are.

This is what some pastors must face. They put so much time and effort into studying so much history and biblical thought that they know none of it makes a lick of sense.
So many flaws and and failures and it's no wonder that you just shake your head after a while and at the very least say "I don't know"

As for telling your wife. You are already putting up with church to make her happy.
Let her have her happiness and let your pastor have his privacy while you give him your trust.

Great analogy. You have a pretty good idea of what it's like to leave pastoral ministry. And in some places, the agnostic/atheist pastor does get blown up by the faulty rocket as he or she search for another way to support themselves.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Erxomai's post
09-08-2012, 01:14 AM
RE: How many of you go to church?
I am not certain he should leave. What if the church ends up with the standard believer. Not open to questions. I think that if the trend continues the way it is, in 50 or so years there won't be a single really strong believer there. Most of them already believe the bible is not word for word true. If we get someone else in there, the church might be used as a weapon.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Birdguy1979's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: