How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
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13-06-2017, 01:28 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
(13-06-2017 12:50 PM)morondog Wrote:  I've grown up with all that washed in the blood nonsense so it makes some kind of sense to me, I don't notice it as abnormal. But there's a pic of a girl covered in blood somewhere around here that really shocked me when I first saw it, you realise that's literally what they're singing so cheerfully about.

I mean... most hymns, with their jolly, rollicking melodies, are about someone dying in horrible ways. It's the most demented shit ever Laugh out load
Yep. Never occurred to me how bizarre it was either. "The blood" was an abstract symbol ... its cleansing, to be fair, is understood by most fundamentalists to be spiritual in nature. Yes, actual blood was shed on the cross, and isn't being shed today so it's not literally a substance that is poured over you. Nevertheless ... it is surpassingly strange shit to be singing jolly songs about and those not steeped in the imagery from the cradle can and do look askance at it.

Quote:There is a fountain filled with blood
Fed from Emmanuel's veins
And sinners washed beneath that flood
Loose all their guilty stains
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13-06-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
(13-06-2017 12:50 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  *snip history*

You just gave me a total new respect for the Command and Conquer development teams. They love their Biblical references and allusions, like Kane is heavily hinted to be the Biblical Cain. He uses a lot of religious imagery, calls himself a Messiah, some of his troops are the Marked of Kane, etc. In C&C 3, the "heretic" who proclaims Kane to be a false messiah is...Brother Marcion. He leads the Marcionite heretics, changes Nod Scriptures, etc.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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14-06-2017, 03:36 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
Thanks for the replies, guys.

I'm definitely not trying to proselytize. I've just spent a lot of time around fundamentalist Christians.

You have to understand that things like Answers in Genesis actually makes sense to some people. Well when you've spent so much time around people such as that, the idea that Paul existed as depicted in the Bible seems like a 100% sane belief. I guess for an outsider though we must all seem insane.
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14-06-2017, 03:54 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
For what it's worth, I hope you hang around for a while and see what makes us tick ...I've seen more than one "deconversion" (and even more "demotions" to a lighter, less-fundy version of Christianity) begin simply by the sudden realization that what sounded perfectly sane once upon a time doesn't quite sound the same once you're out of the echo chamber.

It's also almost worth it to hang around for a while, just because it becomes a LOT more obvious in short order, why so many jumped to conclusions about your motivations for being here. Hang out, join in or even just watch for a while ...we heathens can be great folks and/or total jerks, not unlike the rest of the population ...we just believe in one less god than most.
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14-06-2017, 05:46 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
The surest way to get away from cultists is to start reading stuff they don't want you to read.

Start with Hitchens' "God is not Great."

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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14-06-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
(14-06-2017 05:46 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  The surest way to get away from cultists is to start reading stuff they don't want you to read.

Start with Hitchens' "God is not Great."

> I have found that readings from The Silmarillion always stop them in their tracks. Consider
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14-06-2017, 05:51 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
There are plenty of good choices. Carrier's "On The Historicity of Jesus" is fantastic but not for a beginner.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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14-06-2017, 08:47 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
Dr. Richard Elliott Friedman : "Who Wrote the Bible"

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-06-2017, 01:03 AM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
(14-06-2017 03:36 PM)seoq Wrote:  I guess for an outsider though we must all seem insane.

Some of us have been on the inside too. We managed to escape the asylum though Big Grin

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-06-2017, 07:55 PM
RE: How much believability does Paul's testimony add to the Jesus story?
(12-06-2017 10:50 AM)seoq Wrote:  Given that he knew people who knew Jesus first hand / people who allegedly witnessed Jesus' resurrection. Also that he spent years of his life preaching the gospel
message while under persecution and threat of death. That doesn't sound like the kind of life someone chooses when making up a religion, it really seems to me that he believed what he was preaching. I mean why risk so much and labor so much if it was all made up or some sort of conspiracy?

My thoughts about Paul really have me considering things, so I'm making this thread in the hopes that you guys have strong explanations, just so that I can see what logic is left standing.

You are cluttering your mind with the inconsequential. Focus on facts. No one who ever wrote of jesus, knew him. Not even Paul. The leaders of cults, which is what Paul was, always stay the course regardless of what threats they are under because they are DELUSIONAL. To sit around the campfire pontificating about why Paul would be such a champion for the new cult unless he truly believed it is irrelevant. People believe in nonsense all the time. People will die for the nonsense they believe in, all the time. People will kill other people who do not believe in their nonsense, and it happens all the time.

The tenacity of belief is not the sign of truth or validity. How strongly Paul truly believed in his nonsense matters not. What matters is that every magic claim in the bible has been disproven via lack of collaborating evidence from archaeological, fossil, or historical history. You are spinning yourself into a knot over nonsense.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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