Poll: At what X do you find religion
10 percent certain
20 percent certain
30 percent certain
40 percent certain
50 percent certain
60 percent certain
70 percent certain
80 percent certain
90 percent certain
100 percent certain
I would rather go to hell then convert
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How much certainty do you need to find religion?
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21-09-2013, 01:19 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
(21-09-2013 01:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(21-09-2013 08:43 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Certainty is very bad choice of word to ask a question like this, but just for the sake of argument, I would think that 51% is enough. That is the point where u believe more then u doubt, and if u have to make a choice , it is only rational to go with the option that u find is more likely to be true, even if u find it to be just slightly more likely to be true. I guess. Unsure

Its not always most rational to go with the option that you find more likely to be true because of the consequences you face when you are wrong.

If you are at 50% and don't convert, you got to figure that there is a 50% chance you're going to hell. If you are at 25%, and don't convert, you got to figure you're going to hell about 25% of the time. How much risk of going to WBC hell are you willing to take on to avoid giving up your current belief system?

By that logic why are you not a muslim? Allah is just as vindictive as Yahweh and there are more muslims in the world than christians so if there is a "True" religion it is more likely to be that one.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-09-2013, 01:25 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
(21-09-2013 10:58 AM)Anjele Wrote:  If something is evident I don't need to 'find' it. I also wouldn't need to believe in it...believe implies accepting something as truth. Evident (evidence) means it is clearly seen or obvious.

Try harder, your conversion tactics aren't working.

"Finding religion" is an expression. "Do you think its a coincidence that Johnny found religion just before his parole board hearing?". It means suddenly becoming religious when you previously were not.

Stop being so nitty.
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21-09-2013, 01:29 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
(21-09-2013 01:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(21-09-2013 01:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Its not always most rational to go with the option that you find more likely to be true because of the consequences you face when you are wrong.

If you are at 50% and don't convert, you got to figure that there is a 50% chance you're going to hell. If you are at 25%, and don't convert, you got to figure you're going to hell about 25% of the time. How much risk of going to WBC hell are you willing to take on to avoid giving up your current belief system?

By that logic why are you not a muslim? Allah is just as vindictive as Yahweh and there are more muslims in the world than christians so if there is a "True" religion it is more likely to be that one.

If you are at 0%, there is no reason to convert to a distasteful religion because you can figure you're never going to hell if you don't convert.

Perhaps the number of people practicing a religion should factor into your decision about how likely that religion is to be true, but that is the subject of another thread.
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21-09-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
Practicing...never perfecting, like the rhythm method.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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21-09-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
(21-09-2013 01:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Its not always most rational to go with the option that you find more likely to be true because of the consequences you face when you are wrong.

If you are at 50% and don't convert, you got to figure that there is a 50% chance you're going to hell. If you are at 25%, and don't convert, you got to figure you're going to hell about 25% of the time. How much risk of going to WBC hell are you willing to take on to avoid giving up your current belief system?

Pascal's wager? Really? REALLY? Hasn't that giant piece of shit of an argument been shoved unceremoniously up your ass a few times by now? Well, get prepared for another helping...




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21-09-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
(21-09-2013 01:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(21-09-2013 01:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  By that logic why are you not a muslim? Allah is just as vindictive as Yahweh and there are more muslims in the world than christians so if there is a "True" religion it is more likely to be that one.

If you are at 0%, there is no reason to convert to a distasteful religion because you can figure you're going to hell about 0% of the time if you don't convert.

Perhaps the number of people practicing a religion should factor into your decision about how likely that religion is to be true, but that is the subject of another thread.

I mean when the amount of evidence is equal and the threat of eternal torture exists in both would not the number of adherents be a factor in the decision since avoidance of that eternal torture is the main goal you have stated? Islam is the youngest of the Major religions and is the fastest growing so if you can take any of that as signs of truth then it seems to suggest that you should be praying towards mecca.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-09-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
(21-09-2013 01:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Perhaps the number of people practicing a religion should factor into your decision about how likely that religion is to be true, but that is the subject of another thread.


Argumentum ad populum fallacy, no thread needed... Drinking Beverage

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21-09-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
(21-09-2013 01:33 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(21-09-2013 01:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If you are at 0%, there is no reason to convert to a distasteful religion because you can figure you're going to hell about 0% of the time if you don't convert.

Perhaps the number of people practicing a religion should factor into your decision about how likely that religion is to be true, but that is the subject of another thread.

I mean when the amount of evidence is equal and the threat of eternal torture exists in both would not the number of adherents be a factor in the decision since avoidance of that eternal torture is the main goal you have stated? Islam is the youngest of the Major religions and is the fastest growing so if you can take any of that as signs of truth then it seems to suggest that you should be praying towards mecca.

Maybe, but this isn't a thread about the number of members of a religion correlating with the likelihood of that religion being the one true religion. If you want to talk about that, go start that thread about that topic and maybe I will participate in it.
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21-09-2013, 01:44 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
Wow...badass on board.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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21-09-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: How much certainty do you need to find religion?
(21-09-2013 01:39 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(21-09-2013 01:33 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I mean when the amount of evidence is equal and the threat of eternal torture exists in both would not the number of adherents be a factor in the decision since avoidance of that eternal torture is the main goal you have stated? Islam is the youngest of the Major religions and is the fastest growing so if you can take any of that as signs of truth then it seems to suggest that you should be praying towards mecca.

Maybe, but this isn't a thread about the number of members of a religion correlating with the likelihood of that religion being the one true religion. If you want to talk about that, go start that thread about that topic and maybe I will participate in it.

I'm just curious as to how you are applying Pascal's Wager, since that seems to be your entire motivation. Personally this is how I weigh it. There are hundreds of thousands of individual beliefs some codified some not, most demanding exclusivity of correctness. Since none have any actual evidence it is safest to assume they are all incorrect since they all require action in the only proven time you have in exchange for a boon in a time/place there is no evidence for. Plus for a religion to be correct it would have to, ya know, not be contradicted by reality, which as of yet all of them are. Time, money, actions, conformity are all paid now with the hope of a payoff that may or more likely may not be paid after you die. Best to forgo the lot and if you come before a deity, hope they will look more kindly upon honest disbelief than dishonest piety.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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