How much do I have to hate you?
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03-04-2010, 01:21 PM
 
How much do I have to hate you?
I would like your comments on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhG-tkQ_Q2w
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03-04-2010, 01:40 PM
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
However, most of the time they are mindlessly trying to convert us for an ego boost.

Here is the thing, I know about Jesus, hell and all that lovely stuff. So, unless you have real evidence, which I have never seen, there is no point in trying to convert us. Most of us are rational thinkers, and it will take a lot more than a nice smile as evidence for god.

I have a Christian friend, and we so much in common, except she is a devote Christian. I can tell that she is torn between being respectful of my beliefs, and saving my eternal soul. In a ironic twist, I'm in a similar position. I can see her painful internal conflict, and I'm torn between trying to de-convert her, so she will realize that there is nothing to worry about, and being respectful of her religious beliefs. Just an interesting note.

I know, some people are genuinely concerned about my eternal soul, but please, don't try to save it by cramming a bible down my throat, approach me with clear and concise evidence, and if it doesn't convince me the first time around, it won't do any better the second or third try.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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03-04-2010, 01:50 PM
 
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
(03-04-2010 01:40 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  However, most of the time they are mindlessly trying to convert us for an ego boost.

Here is the thing, I know about Jesus, hell and all that lovely stuff. So, unless you have real evidence, which I have never seen, there is no point in trying to convert us. Most of us are rational thinkers, and it will take a lot more than a nice smile as evidence for god.

I have a Christian friend, and we so much in common, except she is a devote Christian. I can tell that she is torn between being respectful of my beliefs, and saving my eternal soul. In a ironic twist, I'm in a similar position. I can see her painful internal conflict, and I'm torn between trying to de-convert her, so she will realize that there is nothing to worry about, and being respectful of her religious beliefs. Just an interesting note.

I know, some people are genuinely concerned about my eternal soul, but please, don't try to save it by cramming a bible down my throat, approach me with clear and concise evidence, and if it doesn't convince me the first time around, it won't do any better the second or third try.

First, I am not trying to convert anyone. Second, where have I crammed the Bible down your throat, these are great atheist buzzwords. I believe atheists have a weak position and there is no real thought into what they believe and why others are wrong. I really think the site name should be changed, as I rarely see any thinking outside the atheist box. Again you don't have to believe the other side, but you should no it enough to make intelligent comments.
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03-04-2010, 02:03 PM
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
(03-04-2010 01:50 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(03-04-2010 01:40 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  However, most of the time they are mindlessly trying to convert us for an ego boost.

Here is the thing, I know about Jesus, hell and all that lovely stuff. So, unless you have real evidence, which I have never seen, there is no point in trying to convert us. Most of us are rational thinkers, and it will take a lot more than a nice smile as evidence for god.

I have a Christian friend, and we so much in common, except she is a devote Christian. I can tell that she is torn between being respectful of my beliefs, and saving my eternal soul. In a ironic twist, I'm in a similar position. I can see her painful internal conflict, and I'm torn between trying to de-convert her, so she will realize that there is nothing to worry about, and being respectful of her religious beliefs. Just an interesting note.

I know, some people are genuinely concerned about my eternal soul, but please, don't try to save it by cramming a bible down my throat, approach me with clear and concise evidence, and if it doesn't convince me the first time around, it won't do any better the second or third try.

First, I am not trying to convert anyone. Second, where have I crammed the Bible down your throat, these are great atheist buzzwords. I believe atheists have a weak position and there is no real thought into what they believe and why others are wrong. I really think the site name should be changed, as I rarely see any thinking outside the atheist box. Again you don't have to believe the other side, but you should no it enough to make intelligent comments.

I wasn't talking about you in particular, but Christians in general. Frankly, when you(Or anyone) starts with the bible talk, I ignore it. I've said it before, and I'll it again, nothing is more boring than bible study.

I just did a whole thing about the standard of evidence and why we are thinking atheists in another one of your posts, so I will not go into that here.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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03-04-2010, 02:27 PM
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
I don't get it... what is this supposed to prove? I don't care if this guy is an atheist, I wholly disagree with what he says there, that if you believe in something you have to proselytise it. Why? The answer is simple: how do you know that what you believe is the truth and that others would benefit from it? If I were convinced that a god doesn't exist (only that I'm not really convinced), what would I gain by sitting outside the church and trying to convince parishioners as they are walking out of the sermon? People will always believe whatever they want to believe and as long as their set of convictions doesn't harm anyone and as long as they are tolerant of others' persuasions, I say let them be. But well that's only my own perspective on the matter, the skeptic's position. Here I'll quote Bertrand Russell, who, when asked whether he would die for his beliefs, he answered 'No because I might be wrong'. That is what I believe to be one of the wisest things anyone ever said, and I don't care if you accuse me of copy-pasting, using someone else's thoughts etc.

P.S. Martin, you still haven't answered my question, after I asked it twice, and very nicely, too. I'm starting to think you are intentionally ignoring, because I also asked you another question a while ago and you haven't answered that one either. I am offended.

All learning is quite useless if you haven't learned to question what you learn.
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03-04-2010, 03:16 PM
 
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
Quote:First, I am not trying to convert anyone. Second, where have I crammed the Bible down your throat, these are great atheist buzzwords. I believe atheists have a weak position and there is no real thought into what they believe and why others are wrong. I really think the site name should be changed, as I rarely see any thinking outside the atheist box. Again you don't have to believe the other side, but you should no it enough to make intelligent comments.

Clarify the bolded part, please. What do you define as a 'weak position'? What would you consider 'real thought'? Why do you think we believe 'others are wrong'?

If we think 'outside the atheist box', to what extent do you want us to go? Do we need to suspend all disbelief (along with logic, rationality, reason) to actually believe the fables of all the holy texts out there?

If you do not answer satisfactorily, then you will have proven yourself unreasonable.
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03-04-2010, 04:19 PM
 
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
(03-04-2010 02:27 PM)Juppers Wrote:  I don't get it... what is this supposed to prove? I don't care if this guy is an atheist, I wholly disagree with what he says there, that if you believe in something you have to proselytise it. Why? The answer is simple: how do you know that what you believe is the truth and that others would benefit from it? If I were convinced that a god doesn't exist (only that I'm not really convinced), what would I gain by sitting outside the church and trying to convince parishioners as they are walking out of the sermon? People will always believe whatever they want to believe and as long as their set of convictions doesn't harm anyone and as long as they are tolerant of others' persuasions, I say let them be. But well that's only my own perspective on the matter, the skeptic's position. Here I'll quote Bertrand Russell, who, when asked whether he would die for his beliefs, he answered 'No because I might be wrong'. That is what I believe to be one of the wisest things anyone ever said, and I don't care if you accuse me of copy-pasting, using someone else's thoughts etc.

P.S. Martin, you still haven't answered my question, after I asked it twice, and very nicely, too. I'm starting to think you are intentionally ignoring, because I also asked you another question a while ago and you haven't answered that one either. I am offended.

Please...Do you know how many messages I have to respond to from this site? Look how many responses I get to my posts, I have a job, a family, a girlfriend, hobbies etc.
(03-04-2010 03:16 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  
Quote:First, I am not trying to convert anyone. Second, where have I crammed the Bible down your throat, these are great atheist buzzwords. I believe atheists have a weak position and there is no real thought into what they believe and why others are wrong. I really think the site name should be changed, as I rarely see any thinking outside the atheist box. Again you don't have to believe the other side, but you should no it enough to make intelligent comments.

Clarify the bolded part, please. What do you define as a 'weak position'? What would you consider 'real thought'? Why do you think we believe 'others are wrong'?

If we think 'outside the atheist box', to what extent do you want us to go? Do we need to suspend all disbelief (along with logic, rationality, reason) to actually believe the fables of all the holy texts out there?

If you do not answer satisfactorily, then you will have proven yourself unreasonable.

"If you do not answer satisfactorily, then you will have proven yourself unreasonable." What does satisfactorily mean to you? My guess is what you WANT to hear! Just by that last comment It is a waste of my time. What if I made that comment to you on one of your positions?
(03-04-2010 02:27 PM)Juppers Wrote:  I don't get it... what is this supposed to prove? I don't care if this guy is an atheist, I wholly disagree with what he says there, that if you believe in something you have to proselytise it. Why? The answer is simple: how do you know that what you believe is the truth and that others would benefit from it? If I were convinced that a god doesn't exist (only that I'm not really convinced), what would I gain by sitting outside the church and trying to convince parishioners as they are walking out of the sermon? People will always believe whatever they want to believe and as long as their set of convictions doesn't harm anyone and as long as they are tolerant of others' persuasions, I say let them be. But well that's only my own perspective on the matter, the skeptic's position. Here I'll quote Bertrand Russell, who, when asked whether he would die for his beliefs, he answered 'No because I might be wrong'. That is what I believe to be one of the wisest things anyone ever said, and I don't care if you accuse me of copy-pasting, using someone else's thoughts etc.

P.S. Martin, you still haven't answered my question, after I asked it twice, and very nicely, too. I'm starting to think you are intentionally ignoring, because I also asked you another question a while ago and you haven't answered that one either. I am offended.

I actually like that quote, Fox's book of Martyrs is the following link, it is John Fox's famous book detailing the lives, sufferings and triumphant deaths of the early Christian and the Protestant Martyrs. They died for what the Believed. Can someone show me the Atheist Book of Martyrs.

I know the atheist police will take your computer for going onto a site that says Bible Study, but the book is public domain, so you can find it other places.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/f...f-martyrs/
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03-04-2010, 05:14 PM
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
Wow Martin. Way to avoid answering just about everything! LOL. Is it so scary to you, that you are incapable of admitting you just don't have all the answers?

Just visiting.

-SR
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03-04-2010, 05:27 PM
 
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
(03-04-2010 05:14 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Wow Martin. Way to avoid answering just about everything! LOL. Is it so scary to you, that you are incapable of admitting you just don't have all the answers?

Do you see how many questions I have to respond to? Plus private emails from this site. So many of them are so ridiculous that I don't want to waste my time. I got an email from a person on this site today that says prayer does not work. He or she assumes that prayers have to have an instant answer and prayers travel at the speed of light so for that to happen God would have to be on the moon because that is the only distance that would work. I am not responding to something so stupid and that person like others will assume they "Got Me" because I don't answer.

I tried to go one on one with Super about contradictions, mine and the Bible. So far he has not responded, if you would like to tackle that or any other topic one on one I will be more than happy to do it.

My new tack is to ask the person what proof they need for me to provide to prove a point but I am not going to spend 30 minutes on an email only to have Unbeliever say "no it doesn't" as a response. Look at what Super said "If you do not answer satisfactorily, then you will have proven yourself unreasonable." He continues to amaze me, I am going to start using that on all my posts and responses.
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03-04-2010, 05:41 PM
RE: How much do I have to hate you?
(03-04-2010 05:27 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(03-04-2010 05:14 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Wow Martin. Way to avoid answering just about everything! LOL. Is it so scary to you, that you are incapable of admitting you just don't have all the answers?

Do you see how many questions I have to respond to? Plus private emails from this site. So many of them are so ridiculous that I don't want to waste my time. I got an email from a person on this site today that says prayer does not work. He or she assumes that prayers have to have an instant answer and prayers travel at the speed of light so for that to happen God would have to be on the moon because that is the only distance that would work. I am not responding to something so stupid and that person like others will assume they "Got Me" because I don't answer.

I tried to go one on one with Super about contradictions, mine and the Bible. So far he has not responded, if you would like to tackle that or any other topic one on one I will be more than happy to do it.

My new tack is to ask the person what proof they need for me to provide to prove a point but I am not going to spend 30 minutes on an email only to have Unbeliever say "no it doesn't" as a response.

Perhaps then, you will consider this a fair question worthy of an answer. And I really don't intend sarcasm...Why did you come back to this site? Seriously. Do you feel it is your duty to try to convince atheists that they are going to hell? That they need to worship god to get into heaven? Is it that you just like to argue? You have yet to truly credit anyone here as being a worthy adversary for you to debate with (at least not that I've seen, please correct me if I'm wrong), so why bother debating at all unless you have ulterior motives? Please, do share.

Just visiting.

-SR
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