How my soul died
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24-04-2015, 12:52 PM
How my soul died
Here is a summary of the particular thoughts that I pondered to various degrees over the course of a few years. Mostly, I just ignored these questions and observations. Eventually, however, I confronted them full-on with the intent to squash them once and for all. But... If you put butter in the oven, it's going to melt.

Assuming...
1. God exists
And, my Bible tells me that..
2. God is perfect (Matthew 5:48)
3. God knows everything (1 John 3:20)
4. God knows the future (Psalm 139:4, 16)
5. God created everything that exists in the universe (John 1:3)

God created Satan (5)
God knew Satan would rebel (4)
God created the world (5)
God created people (with the capability to sin) (5)
God knew Satan would cause man to sin (4)
Therefore: The god of the Bible punishes the people he created (intentionally and knowingly with the ability to sin) for doing what he knew they would do because of the actions (which he knew would occur) of Satan, whom he also created (knowingly and intentionally with the ability to sin). Therefore, God punishes humans for his own actions. (And calls it Justice.)

Analogy: I see a person at the bottom of a hill. There is a boulder here that I know will roll down the hill and hit that person, killing them. I proceed to push said boulder down that hill toward said person, who is squashed and killed. I order the boulder smashed to a thousand bits and order all onlookers to worship me in fear lest I smash them to bits as well.

Also, consider:
God instructed Abraham to sacrifice Isaac (Genesis 22:2)
God knew that Abraham would do it (3,4)
God didn’t know if Abraham would do it (Genesis 22:12)
Genesis 22:12 and claims 3 and 4 are mutually exclusive, only one can be true and the other must be false.
What did Jesus do after his baptism?
He immediately went into the wilderness for 40 days (Mark 1:10-13)
He called his disciples and attended a wedding over the course of three days. (John 1:35-2:1)
These two statements are mutually exclusive, only one can be true and the other must be false.
How did Judas die?
He hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)
He fell on his head and died (Acts 1:18)
These two statements are mutually exclusive, only one can be true and the other must be false.

Therefore:
6. There are false statements in the Bible.
7. The Bible cannot be trusted as the source of absolute truth (6)
Since, the Bible can be shown by its own words to contain false statements (6), it lacks credibility (7). The Bible cannot be used as proof of its own validity.

Finally:
a. Is there any evidence (other than the testimony of the Bible) that Jesus Christ existed?
b. If a is true, is there any evidence that he actually had any supernatural abilities and/or was actually resurrected?
c. Is there any evidence that the supernatural elements of the story of Jesus Christ were contrived?
d. Is there any evidence that a god, any god, exists?
e. Is there any evidence for any of the other proposed explanations for our existence?
f. Even if a and b are true, and c is false, does that imply the existence of a god?
g. Even if a and b are true, does that imply that the writings contained in the Bible should be considered “holy”, “inspired”, or “authoritative”?
h. If d is true, does that imply the god of the bible?

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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24-04-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: How my soul died
6. In such way as there are false statements in Winnie the Pooh.
7. Cerainly. Also I think that saying something is absolute truth is redundant.

a. Bart Ehrmann seems to think so.
b. No.
c. Shouldn't you rather ask if there is any evidence of it not being contrived?
d. No.
e. God is not explanation - saying god did it explain nothing, don't advance our knowledge and don't expand our understanding.
f. It could, and if not god then incredibly advanced civilization witch technology we would call magic. Hovewer there is no reason to think that Jesus was resurrected.
g. Not really. Ressurection would give some credence to the Bible but that's all I think.
h. No.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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24-04-2015, 01:53 PM
RE: How my soul died
On a, a better question would be to ask, what extra-biblical evidence is there that Jesus is who he claimed he is?

He may have existed, but he wasn't the son of god, he was just a rabbi that had mythos thrown upon him to be used as the Catholic church needed to create the myth of Jesus and control people as the Roman emperor wanted.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-04-2015, 06:12 PM
RE: How my soul died
(24-04-2015 12:52 PM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  God created Satan (5)
God knew Satan would rebel (4)
God created the world (5)
God created people (with the capability to sin) (5)
God knew Satan would cause man to sin (4)
Therefore: The god of the Bible punishes the people he created (intentionally and knowingly with the ability to sin) for doing what he knew they would do because of the actions (which he knew would occur) of Satan, whom he also created (knowingly and intentionally with the ability to sin). Therefore, God punishes humans for his own actions. (And calls it Justice.)

Yeah, that killed my soul too.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-04-2015, 06:16 PM
RE: How my soul died
(24-04-2015 01:53 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  On a, a better question would be to ask, what extra-biblical evidence is there that Jesus is who he claimed he is?

He may have existed, but he wasn't the son of god, he was just a rabbi that had mythos thrown upon him to be used as the Catholic church needed to create the myth of Jesus and control people as the Roman emperor wanted.

Exactly and Jesus (if he did exist at all) wasn't the only one running around like that--there were others:

http://infidels.org/library/modern/richa...kooks.html

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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25-04-2015, 01:53 AM
RE: How my soul died
(24-04-2015 06:16 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(24-04-2015 01:53 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  On a, a better question would be to ask, what extra-biblical evidence is there that Jesus is who he claimed he is?

He may have existed, but he wasn't the son of god, he was just a rabbi that had mythos thrown upon him to be used as the Catholic church needed to create the myth of Jesus and control people as the Roman emperor wanted.

Exactly and Jesus (if he did exist at all) wasn't the only one running around like that--there were others:

http://infidels.org/library/modern/richa...kooks.html

Michael Grant in "Jesus: An Historian Review of the Gospels" states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary."

But what would happen if Jesus existed? Nothing, I mean he - if he indeed lived - was just another preacher, nothing points to him being son of god, not to mention nothing inprobability of god being real.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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25-04-2015, 01:58 AM
RE: How my soul died
Sorry to hear that your soul died. I managed to sell my one on ebay before it gave out.
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25-04-2015, 08:15 AM
RE: How my soul died
His soul died too! Weeping
   
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27-04-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: How my soul died
(25-04-2015 01:58 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Sorry to hear that your soul died. I managed to sell my one on ebay before it gave out.

Well, dammit, I wish I had thought of that!

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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27-04-2015, 08:54 AM
RE: How my soul died
I had very similar thoughts to this during my deconversion. Thanks for writing it out Smile

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
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