How old does the bible say the Earth is?
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13-03-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 09:14 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(13-03-2016 09:07 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  That's fudge, dark and brown.

It's dark and brown, but there ain't no fudge involved...

You're trying to shoehorn cosmic time into a story originally told around a fire fueled by dried camel dung. Puh-leze.
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13-03-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 02:45 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(12-03-2016 12:47 PM)Aliza Wrote:  This really isn’t stretching the truth. This is just a translation deficiency. The English understanding of the word “day” doesn’t encompass the entire scope of the Hebrew word, “yom”.

The word “yom” used here that has been translated to “day” in English really just means a period of time from darkness to light. –and that doesn’t have to mean strictly physical dark to physical light. It can also mean a period of time from disorder(dark) to order(light), or from ignorance(dark) to knowledge(light).

A day, as understood in Hebrew, fits into this definition. Jewish days go from evening to day. They start at sundown (darkness) and continue past sunrise(light) until the darkness of the next day begins.

The wording in Genesis remains valid even if you apply the understanding that each “day” can be billions of years long. If we’ve gone from a period of time with no vegetation to a period of time with vegetation, then we’ve met the criteria for a “yom.”

I would suggest that your alternate understanding for Shem’s lifetime would comply with the definition of “yom” provided that you can show that each month can be considered to be a “yom”… a period of dark to light. If you could demonstrate this, I can’t see why it shouldn’t be considered.


The 'creation' described in 5 minutes and containing 40 things that God should have known, but didn't....





Flowery language doesn't have to exclude demonstrably accurate claims that would actually match the available evidence. Honestly, I'd expect better from a god. Kinda embarrassing to be shown up by a mere human like that. Drinking Beverage

First of all… I loved the video. 4:42 mirrors the Jewish position perfectly. I wonder if using it to prove a point might be more effective on a Christian audience, though.

As you know, EK, when I post here, I’m presenting a Jewish argument. I’m not here to sway anyone to my opinion, but simply to state what Jews believe, and to point out the contrast between Jewish and Christian thinking in spite of our “shared” book.

The video assumes a specific mindset that I don’t think applies to my position. The first is that Genesis was meant to be a comprehensive explanation for creation. At least according to our current understanding of the language, it is clearly not detailed, and not intended to be understood as such. Part of the reason for that is that the Torah is not about creation. It’s a book written to Jews about how to live a Jewish lifestyle. It’s a handbook for living.

The video, which presents a more scientifically accurate story of creation, encourages man to go out to the stars and discover. The Jewish position on this would be that we can choose to do that, but it’s not incumbent upon us to do so. For what reason would G-d need to ‘prove’ his existence to us by dazzling us with a more detailed explanation of creation, and how would such a detailed story of creation have been beneficial to sheep herders? It would have frustrated them as they tried to make sense of the text in a time when scientific discovery could not be relied upon to answer their questions (and it wasn’t essential to their lives to understand anyway.)

3:53) Why should man require a working knowledge of the universe to live a happy life? If the Torah’s primary function is to serve as a guide for living a happy life, then studying science is not expressly required to achieve this. Scientific discovery has never been denied to man... it’s just not required. My mother is really not into science and she could care less about how we came into existence, but she finds incredible joy in teaching art to preschool aged children. Science and a working knowledge of evolution not required.

5:38) The speaker urges listeners to look for details and question why these details are not provided in the bible. But why should they be? If we can develop our culture and collective intelligence to a point where we can discover this and see it with our own eyes, then why must these details have been provided in order to “prove” G-d’s existence? The Christians position is that G-d somehow requires people to “believe.” The Jewish position is that a belief in G-d is neither required nor essential (it's nice if you want to, but don't get nuts with it or anything). The story of creation gives a brief overview of how the universe and man came to be. The language is highly parabolic and its simple explanation is intended to be understood by very simple people.

8:10) Again, the speaker insists that G-d’s objective is to convince people to believe. This is not the point of the Torah. Why would G-d need anyone to believe in him as such that he should have given us a comprehensive explanation for the creation of the universe, thus denying us the joy of figuring it out for ourselves. After all, the actual purpose of life, as I’ve been taught, is learning and discovery and finding joy. Where is the joy in having the puzzle solved for you?
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13-03-2016, 10:39 AM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 05:32 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(13-03-2016 05:27 AM)Leo Wrote:  And why 6:30 pm ? Fuck that, it should be 18:30.

That would be "Fertile Crescent" time zone, I think. (Daylight savings not in effect.)

As for the 24 hour clock, I have no idea what kind of chronometers Yhwh uses.

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YHWH uses a solar power G shock rangeman Smartass set in the 24 hour format. The 12 hour clock is a pagan Roman invention. And it's very silly. YesTongue

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13-03-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 05:32 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(13-03-2016 05:27 AM)Leo Wrote:  And why 6:30 pm ? Fuck that, it should be 18:30.

That would be "Fertile Crescent" time zone, I think. (Daylight savings not in effect.)

As for the 24 hour clock, I have no idea what kind of chronometers Yhwh uses.

Smartass

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13-03-2016, 03:21 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
That sand clock doesn't look like a 24 hour clock.Consider

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13-03-2016, 03:52 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 03:21 PM)Leo Wrote:  That sand clock doesn't look like a 24 hour clock.Consider

But thats what bronze age cutting edge technology represented. Wasnt Yhwh a bronze age contemporary?
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13-03-2016, 07:51 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(12-03-2016 12:13 PM)Aliza Wrote:  and Adam was not the first human to walk the earth.

Do tell. As you might expect, this is not the story we get told in Sunday school.

I've heard snippets here and there, largely about a very naughty lass named Lilith, but little of any substance.

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13-03-2016, 08:05 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(12-03-2016 12:47 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(12-03-2016 12:29 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Then why would god dictate in the form of a day to his telling of the creation to be written down if it's not merely the truth?

Doesn't that equal ability to say he could just be stretching the truth in other forms like the adam & eve account as well or any other tale before Moses's time.

If a day could be anything, why can't a year be anything. Maybe shem didn't live 502 earth rotates around the sun years but 502 months that god chose to call years, making him 41 in years or really more like 502 moon phases which might of been calculated by the people at the time which being around 28 days would give a few more years to his life, either way that wouldn't be an unreasonable account for many of these supposedly biologically differently built men who lived so long.

If one thing doesn't have to be as written neither does anything else. Why is it that only some details are given this treatment too though.

This really isn’t stretching the truth. This is just a translation deficiency. The English understanding of the word “day” doesn’t encompass the entire scope of the Hebrew word, “yom”.

The word “yom” used here that has been translated to “day” in English really just means a period of time from darkness to light. –and that doesn’t have to mean strictly physical dark to physical light. It can also mean a period of time from disorder(dark) to order(light), or from ignorance(dark) to knowledge(light).

A day, as understood in Hebrew, fits into this definition. Jewish days go from evening to day. They start at sundown (darkness) and continue past sunrise(light) until the darkness of the next day begins.

The wording in Genesis remains valid even if you apply the understanding that each “day” can be billions of years long. If we’ve gone from a period of time with no vegetation to a period of time with vegetation, then we’ve met the criteria for a “yom.”

I would suggest that your alternate understanding for Shem’s lifetime would comply with the definition of “yom” provided that you can show that each month can be considered to be a “yom”… a period of dark to light. If you could demonstrate this, I can’t see why it shouldn’t be considered.

I'm not sure you can answer this, there were times in parts of the world where volcanos would have erupted and completely blocked the sun for many days....

Would the Jews skip over those days?

Or if a solar eclipse occurred, would they count that as a short day? Consider


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13-03-2016, 08:12 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
God is just really bad at math; can't even count to three. How could he be expected to know the difference between 6000 and 13.5 billion?
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13-03-2016, 08:24 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 08:05 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(12-03-2016 12:47 PM)Aliza Wrote:  This really isn’t stretching the truth. This is just a translation deficiency. The English understanding of the word “day” doesn’t encompass the entire scope of the Hebrew word, “yom”.

The word “yom” used here that has been translated to “day” in English really just means a period of time from darkness to light. –and that doesn’t have to mean strictly physical dark to physical light. It can also mean a period of time from disorder(dark) to order(light), or from ignorance(dark) to knowledge(light).

A day, as understood in Hebrew, fits into this definition. Jewish days go from evening to day. They start at sundown (darkness) and continue past sunrise(light) until the darkness of the next day begins.

The wording in Genesis remains valid even if you apply the understanding that each “day” can be billions of years long. If we’ve gone from a period of time with no vegetation to a period of time with vegetation, then we’ve met the criteria for a “yom.”

I would suggest that your alternate understanding for Shem’s lifetime would comply with the definition of “yom” provided that you can show that each month can be considered to be a “yom”… a period of dark to light. If you could demonstrate this, I can’t see why it shouldn’t be considered.

I'm not sure you can answer this, there were times in parts of the world where volcanos would have erupted and completely blocked the sun for many days....

Would the Jews skip over those days?

Or if a solar eclipse occurred, would they count that as a short day? Consider

When it rains and the cloud cover is too thick to see the sun and moon, the start and end of the day is just estimated. Even still, darkness and light can still be gauged. I think the days would be estimated like that even if light and dark could not be established at all.
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