How old does the bible say the Earth is?
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13-03-2016, 08:59 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 08:24 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(13-03-2016 08:05 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I'm not sure you can answer this, there were times in parts of the world where volcanos would have erupted and completely blocked the sun for many days....

Would the Jews skip over those days?

Or if a solar eclipse occurred, would they count that as a short day? Consider

When it rains and the cloud cover is too thick to see the sun and moon, the start and end of the day is just estimated. Even still, darkness and light can still be gauged. I think the days would be estimated like that even if light and dark could not be established at all.

Well, I live in Oregon, so yeah I get the dark dreary days. Smile I've also seen bright nights when the moon was full and the ground was covered with snow (equally freaky to this California girl).

Thanks for your answer. Smile


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13-03-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(12-03-2016 07:48 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(12-03-2016 06:35 AM)Kyx Wrote:  Many people believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old. If the bible said this, surely it is 8,016 years old now?

The bible does not state the Earth is 6,000 years old, that number is based off the Ussher Chronology, in which he added up all of the begats and tagged them to historical events that we knew, such as the reign of Nebuchadnezzar.

Many such studies have been done by numerous people over the centuries, they all generally agree to this time frame. However, it put the bible in contradiction with basically every branch of science, so we have people that refuse to acknowledge the bible is absurd and declare archeology and science to be absurd.

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Don't forget Gregory of Tours. Wink

His book is three meters from me now.

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14-03-2016, 04:25 AM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 10:02 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(13-03-2016 02:45 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The 'creation' described in 5 minutes and containing 40 things that God should have known, but didn't....





Flowery language doesn't have to exclude demonstrably accurate claims that would actually match the available evidence. Honestly, I'd expect better from a god. Kinda embarrassing to be shown up by a mere human like that. Drinking Beverage

First of all… I loved the video. 4:42 mirrors the Jewish position perfectly. I wonder if using it to prove a point might be more effective on a Christian audience, though.

As you know, EK, when I post here, I’m presenting a Jewish argument. I’m not here to sway anyone to my opinion, but simply to state what Jews believe, and to point out the contrast between Jewish and Christian thinking in spite of our “shared” book.

The video assumes a specific mindset that I don’t think applies to my position. The first is that Genesis was meant to be a comprehensive explanation for creation. At least according to our current understanding of the language, it is clearly not detailed, and not intended to be understood as such. Part of the reason for that is that the Torah is not about creation. It’s a book written to Jews about how to live a Jewish lifestyle. It’s a handbook for living.

The video, which presents a more scientifically accurate story of creation, encourages man to go out to the stars and discover. The Jewish position on this would be that we can choose to do that, but it’s not incumbent upon us to do so. For what reason would G-d need to ‘prove’ his existence to us by dazzling us with a more detailed explanation of creation, and how would such a detailed story of creation have been beneficial to sheep herders? It would have frustrated them as they tried to make sense of the text in a time when scientific discovery could not be relied upon to answer their questions (and it wasn’t essential to their lives to understand anyway.)

3:53) Why should man require a working knowledge of the universe to live a happy life? If the Torah’s primary function is to serve as a guide for living a happy life, then studying science is not expressly required to achieve this. Scientific discovery has never been denied to man... it’s just not required. My mother is really not into science and she could care less about how we came into existence, but she finds incredible joy in teaching art to preschool aged children. Science and a working knowledge of evolution not required.

5:38) The speaker urges listeners to look for details and question why these details are not provided in the bible. But why should they be? If we can develop our culture and collective intelligence to a point where we can discover this and see it with our own eyes, then why must these details have been provided in order to “prove” G-d’s existence? The Christians position is that G-d somehow requires people to “believe.” The Jewish position is that a belief in G-d is neither required nor essential (it's nice if you want to, but don't get nuts with it or anything). The story of creation gives a brief overview of how the universe and man came to be. The language is highly parabolic and its simple explanation is intended to be understood by very simple people.

8:10) Again, the speaker insists that G-d’s objective is to convince people to believe. This is not the point of the Torah. Why would G-d need anyone to believe in him as such that he should have given us a comprehensive explanation for the creation of the universe, thus denying us the joy of figuring it out for ourselves. After all, the actual purpose of life, as I’ve been taught, is learning and discovery and finding joy. Where is the joy in having the puzzle solved for you?


Fair enough. It really is more of a torpedo for anyone looking to cite it as a source for biblical literalism. But if you're already of the opinion that it's all stories and parables and not claiming to be the be-all-end-all divinely inspired and accurate tale of the creation of the known universe, well...

The world has bigger societal problems than secular jews.


Still, if at all possible, it would have been nice to have been let in on the bit about germs. Just sayin'. Tongue

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14-03-2016, 10:28 AM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
Earth is 17 years old Wink
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14-03-2016, 11:37 AM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 06:05 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  The Elders lived long lives, but you find nothing in the Bible about them after they would have been 70 years old or so.

This isn't quite true. Most of the stuff about Noah is from the time of the flood, when he was about 600 years old.
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14-03-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(14-03-2016 04:25 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(13-03-2016 10:02 AM)Aliza Wrote:  First of all… I loved the video. 4:42 mirrors the Jewish position perfectly. I wonder if using it to prove a point might be more effective on a Christian audience, though.

As you know, EK, when I post here, I’m presenting a Jewish argument. I’m not here to sway anyone to my opinion, but simply to state what Jews believe, and to point out the contrast between Jewish and Christian thinking in spite of our “shared” book.

The video assumes a specific mindset that I don’t think applies to my position. The first is that Genesis was meant to be a comprehensive explanation for creation. At least according to our current understanding of the language, it is clearly not detailed, and not intended to be understood as such. Part of the reason for that is that the Torah is not about creation. It’s a book written to Jews about how to live a Jewish lifestyle. It’s a handbook for living.

The video, which presents a more scientifically accurate story of creation, encourages man to go out to the stars and discover. The Jewish position on this would be that we can choose to do that, but it’s not incumbent upon us to do so. For what reason would G-d need to ‘prove’ his existence to us by dazzling us with a more detailed explanation of creation, and how would such a detailed story of creation have been beneficial to sheep herders? It would have frustrated them as they tried to make sense of the text in a time when scientific discovery could not be relied upon to answer their questions (and it wasn’t essential to their lives to understand anyway.)

3:53) Why should man require a working knowledge of the universe to live a happy life? If the Torah’s primary function is to serve as a guide for living a happy life, then studying science is not expressly required to achieve this. Scientific discovery has never been denied to man... it’s just not required. My mother is really not into science and she could care less about how we came into existence, but she finds incredible joy in teaching art to preschool aged children. Science and a working knowledge of evolution not required.

5:38) The speaker urges listeners to look for details and question why these details are not provided in the bible. But why should they be? If we can develop our culture and collective intelligence to a point where we can discover this and see it with our own eyes, then why must these details have been provided in order to “prove” G-d’s existence? The Christians position is that G-d somehow requires people to “believe.” The Jewish position is that a belief in G-d is neither required nor essential (it's nice if you want to, but don't get nuts with it or anything). The story of creation gives a brief overview of how the universe and man came to be. The language is highly parabolic and its simple explanation is intended to be understood by very simple people.

8:10) Again, the speaker insists that G-d’s objective is to convince people to believe. This is not the point of the Torah. Why would G-d need anyone to believe in him as such that he should have given us a comprehensive explanation for the creation of the universe, thus denying us the joy of figuring it out for ourselves. After all, the actual purpose of life, as I’ve been taught, is learning and discovery and finding joy. Where is the joy in having the puzzle solved for you?


Fair enough. It really is more of a torpedo for anyone looking to cite it as a source for biblical literalism. But if you're already of the opinion that it's all stories and parables and not claiming to be the be-all-end-all divinely inspired and accurate tale of the creation of the known universe, well...

The world has bigger societal problems than secular jews.


Still, if at all possible, it would have been nice to have been let in on the bit about germs. Just sayin'. Tongue

Perhaps the recipe for disinfectant?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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15-03-2016, 05:02 AM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(12-03-2016 07:29 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-03-2016 06:35 AM)Kyx Wrote:  Many people believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old. If the bible said this, surely it is 8,016 years old now?

No not surely. The Bible is a collection of made up stories.

Of course!Oops
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15-03-2016, 05:57 AM
RE: How old does the bible say the Earth is?
(13-03-2016 08:55 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(13-03-2016 05:08 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  You realize that fudging the definition of "days" is silly, right? The proto-Bedouins who wrote that stuff didn't have a cosmic vision of "days", they meant DAYS.

I don't think I'm fudging it, though.

Yom (Hebrew: יום‎) is a Biblical Hebrew word which occurs in the Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament). The Arabic equivalent is "yawm" or "yōm" written as يوم.

Although it is commonly rendered as day in English translations, the word yom has several literal definitions: [1]

Period of light (as contrasted with the period of darkness),
Period of twenty-four hours
General term for time
Point of time
Sunrise to sunset
Sunset to next sunset
A year (in the plural; I Sam 27:7; Ex 13:10, etc.)
Time period of unspecified length.
A long, but finite span of time - age - epoch - season.

The point is that it is still an interpretation of the meaning. There are many interpretations, not all of which can be correct, and there is no way to determine if any are correct.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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