How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
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30-11-2011, 09:25 PM
 
How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
Nationalism was a very powerful force in past centuries and politicians still pay lip service to it during election campaigns, but is it still a serious factor in our age?

The world economy is more or less globalized: cars and computers are put together from components made practically anywhere in the world.

When people buy their gadgets (cars, computers, etc) – the major consideration is cost – not the “Made in USA” label (if there is still such a thing.).

English is fast emerging as a global language, culture, religion, philosophy is more and more human oriented, as opposed to nationalistic. Star Trek is watched in every country in the world, translated to practically every language.

The internet is blurring all borders – here we are, discussing all kinds of issues with Americans, Europeans, Asians, Africans, practically the whole world, without even being aware that we belong to different nations.

Is it possible that the only sane vision of “One Planet – One Species” is finally taking hold, the way Karl Sagan imagined it and expressed it so often, so eloquently?

So, my question is: how patriotic (as opposed to humanistic) are you?
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30-11-2011, 11:18 PM
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
Terran first, Irish-American otherwise. I'm a "patriot" as far as "We the people" to E Pluribus Unum. - I get "American" with the good stuff - free expression, representative democracy, constitutional checks and balances... try to keep the bad stuff in my pocket.

Of course, if those Canucks invade, I might hafta get nationalistic about it. Tongue

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01-12-2011, 12:48 AM
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
In this day and age, If one is nationalistic or patriotic, does that person even know what he is devoting him/herself to? I think not. It's like devoting yourself to a religion. The diversity of the Internet and the availability of information it has allowed us does not help us to understand where the demarcation of principals resides; I think it actually makes it harder to determine because the information is convoluted. If we can't understand what the boundaries are, how can anyone decide to be patriotic?

I know this is a backhanded way to say Nationalism is nonsense but it's beyond nonsense. It's impossible to reasonably make a choice. This danger is what makes us vulnerable to political control. It's the machine of mass manipulation. Unfortunately, to be part of a unified world opposed to separate national divisions, it is likely to have power schemes that subjugate and position. Oh, there goes the pessimist again. Danger, Will Robinson, Danger..

I hope you and Carl are correct that “One Planet – One Species” could be taking hold. I think it may be premature to think that the information network or economic diversity are capable of bringing us closer to it. The Internet is a tool, and this tool itself is blurred. The nature of free information is just as capable of building understanding between people as it is to create division though misinformation. I think as we get closer to a world where we understand each other better, the greater the old controls will fight for power and if necessary the powers will themselves evolve to keep their positions using the very tools we rely on to free us.

Don't worry, I'll change my mind in the morning. Smile

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01-12-2011, 02:56 AM
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
This was my reply to defacto7: And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Recognize that crap? Revelation; chapter 4, of course. What's with all the 4? Scope the factors: 2 x 2 x 2 x 3 = 24, 4 = YHWH
seven: 2 x 2 , 3 remains... know what that means?

I'm crazy! Big Grin

But yeah, I just went off from your tangent; went and applied Revelation to the Platonic solids... them mofos got my Pure Number in 'em! Know what that means? It is Doable! Hoo-doggie! I love my Gwynnies!





(It's gotta be love when one of my least favorite songs in the universe is required)

Sorry about that. Here's defacto7's contention:

The nature of free information is just as capable of building understanding between people as it is to create division though misinformation

Wrong. There is no "mis" information; the quality of deception is through identity, and within. Wink

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01-12-2011, 09:32 AM
 
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
(30-11-2011 11:18 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Of course, if those Canucks invade, I might hafta get nationalistic about it. Tongue

It did not help you in 1812 - 1814! Tongue

(today it just might play out differently though Sad )
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01-12-2011, 09:53 AM
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
(01-12-2011 09:32 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(30-11-2011 11:18 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Of course, if those Canucks invade, I might hafta get nationalistic about it. Tongue

It did not help you in 1812 - 1814! Tongue

(today it just might play out differently though Sad )

Invade America? No. Burn Washington? It's doable. Wink

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01-12-2011, 10:26 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2011 10:36 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
[facetious] Yes, yes but so what, hardly at all, it's not exactly a decision and no, you probably won't. [/facetious]

People do not decide to choose patriotism: it's not a cerebral process. It's a tribal loyalty, going back to the apes and much earlier; so deeply rooted in our collective psyche that we can't access it or identify its origins and causes. Can't excise it, and it's not likely to be bred out in the next thousand years - it merely attaches to new objects, or is defined with more up-to-date phrases. It may be suppressed or submerged in a larger identity, as in Yugoslavia, but the old bloodthirsty and land-hungry tribal drives bob to the surface on very little provocation.

The patriotism that's touted in most countries now is a marketing ploy. Sloganeering that pushes ancient buttons, the same way sugar in processed food reaches out to the hypothalamus - as effective as it is unreal. H technologis lives in a manufactured world, with no clear demarcations between emotion and reason, fact and fiction, fantasy and faith; the same emphasis given to the outcome of a football game and a revolution; the same degree of involvement in a singing contest and an earthquake. We have pretend-elections, sham budget reforms and make-believe wars, all with real casualties.
To whom does the modern patriot profess loyalty?

Well, different entities and concepts in different countries. In Canada and the USA, these concepts are abstract and the entities are ill-defined. Certainly, the privately-schooled child of a Jewish movie mogul feels little affinity with his Mexican gardener's kid, let alone a Black gang-banger from Detroit. Even should they all end up in the army, they won't be on the same duty roster.... and for damn sure, they won't be fighting for the same country.
All Americans do not experience, understand or imagine the same country. No nationals do, of course, because there is always an uncrossable divide between rulers and ruled, but French people are at least all similarly French (Allah help the imported but unassimilated Arabs from their former colonies, when francomania bobs to the surface!) and Germans, east and west, are all still German. We're not sure what the inhabitants of the British isles are - still at least three separate tribes, with quietly seething enmities, plus flotsam and jetsam from their glorious international adventurings.

Too long...
Anyway, what i see is the breaking down of barriers to communication and trade, so that the people who rob everybody are identified as the extra-national pirates they are (nothing new....) but the populations don't melt into one big political union. The federations we have now are barely holding together; some have already shattered, more will, as climate change, famine, technological disasters, wars, water and energy crises take their toll. The landscape and people-scape are going to change drastically in the next half century.
In the long term, i foresee lots of little tribes with lots of little border disputes, raids and skirmishes; trade and truces, cultural exchange and marriages. Just like the bad old days.

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01-12-2011, 04:58 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2011 05:08 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
Don't care in the slightest tbh. Actually I am quite sick of people running around blindly bragging about how great this country is.

Every time I see someone say, "America is the best country in the world!!", I have to ask them, "at what".
I have never gotten a good answer, but as I thought it over I realized we are probably the best at one thing. Buying shit!


Just by chance I am an American, just like the christian is christian by chance.
Me and that religious nut could have been born in Iraq; he would be a Muslim, and I still wouldn't be patriotic.

Patriotism is just as much a disease as Religion.
Why would/should someone praise god/country just because of a chance incident?
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01-12-2011, 05:13 PM
 
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
(01-12-2011 12:48 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  Don't worry, I'll change my mind in the morning. Smile

Well, did you? Tongue
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01-12-2011, 05:48 PM
RE: How relevant is patriotism in the 21st century?
(01-12-2011 05:13 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(01-12-2011 12:48 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  Don't worry, I'll change my mind in the morning. Smile

Well, did you? Tongue

NO! Angry Wink

--And my comment to the one you edited here...

I wouldn't use a funny face.... it's too true.

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