How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
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27-06-2012, 04:39 PM
RE: How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
I'm sure there are some republicans with like views, but are repressed by the new rebuplicans.

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27-06-2012, 04:55 PM
RE: How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
I'm to the left fiscally/economical and socially.

I'd really need to know, how far to the right are you economically/fiscally?

If you find yourself with Tea Party Republicans, or Republicans that support similar fiscally/economically conservative ideas, then I'd have to say your ideas are contradictory. I wouldn't say grab a Bible, but you might as well jump on board with the rest of the crazy ideas, as their fiscally conservative ideas are equally detrimental, if not more detrimental, than the social ones. Also, keep in mind that those ideas are coming from the same people.

You wouldn't go outside and find the wino who constantly yells about Jesus and how we are all going to burn in hell for using condoms/birth control and having anal sex, or about brain eating aliens that are going to take over the world, then ask him, before he passes out, to give you help with your macro and calc homework.

So, it'd really depend how far you were in that direction for me to be able to give an opinion. I'd kind of need to know what type of polices you were in support of and what you opposed.

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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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27-06-2012, 06:26 PM (This post was last modified: 27-06-2012 06:38 PM by KidCharlemagne1962.)
RE: How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
(27-06-2012 04:55 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  I'm to the left fiscally/economical and socially.

I'd really need to know, how far to the right are you economically/fiscally?

If you find yourself with Tea Party Republicans, or Republicans that support similar fiscally/economically conservative ideas, then I'd have to say your ideas are contradictory. I wouldn't say grab a Bible, but you might as well jump on board with the rest of the crazy ideas, as their fiscally conservative ideas are equally detrimental, if not more detrimental, than the social ones. Also, keep in mind that those ideas are coming from the same people.

You wouldn't go outside and find the wino who constantly yells about Jesus and how we are all going to burn in hell for using condoms/birth control and having anal sex, or about brain eating aliens that are going to take over the world, then ask him, before he passes out, to give you help with your macro and calc homework.

So, it'd really depend how far you were in that direction for me to be able to give an opinion. I'd kind of need to know what type of polices you were in support of and what you opposed.

I guess I do not see how fiscal concerns or stances equate to the other views of the Tea Party of Republicans in general. One can be pretty fiscally conservative and not buy into any of their social agenda

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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27-06-2012, 08:28 PM
RE: How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
(27-06-2012 06:26 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  I guess I do not see how fiscal concerns or stances equate to the other views of the Tea Party of Republicans in general. One can be pretty fiscally conservative and not buy into any of their social agenda

I'm just saying the Tea Party's fiscal/economical policies are as crazy, if not more crazy, than their social positions.

I'm talking about the Grover Norquist pledge signing Republicans: the no new taxes, no raising taxes on corporations or individuals, no gaining any revenues by closing loopholes, and advocate lower taxes. The people who wanted to talk about the deficit, succeed, and pretty much slammed the breaks on our recovery. Cut spending and public jobs during an economical recession. Won't support the government stimulating the economy and creating jobs, and actually want to cut spending even more.

Those are the people and the policies I'm talking about. If you support those types of fiscal/economical policies, then supporting the rest of the Tea Party's extreme policies on anti-abortion, anti-contraception, anti-immigration, anti-gay pro-religious, etc., isn't a far stretch in crazy.

So, you don't have to buy into the rest, but you might as well. The other policies are so overwhelmingly bad and detrimental that it wouldn't matter what you supported socially.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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27-06-2012, 10:23 PM
RE: How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
(27-06-2012 11:50 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your beliefs do not self-conflict, they are not inconsistent.

They only conflict as a set with the sets of beliefs of, say, the Democrats or Republicans. I dare say that many people on this board generally share your stated set of beliefs.
I agree with you Chas. To me, my beliefs make perfect sense. They are all along the line of as little government intervention as possible. I was just referring to how they seem to conflict with the more common Democrat/Republican positions and thoughts.
It is great to hear from more people that think like I do. I have several friends from high school that are also athiests, but all of them are VERY liberal, so for a while there I thought I missed the boat somewhere!
I just turned 30 this month, so I consider myself still fairly young. I am not as politically aware as I would like to be. I wish I had more time to learn more about our past and current political culture; however, there just isn't enough time in the day for that yet. Right now most of what I hear about politics comes from Neil Boortz (who I LOVE to listen to, even though I am always pissed off afterward...not from him, but from the stupidity he points out). One of the scary things to me is that I really don't know who to believe as far as news reports. It is so easy to become apathetic toward politics because I don't know who is telling the truth.
I also feel that people in my generation (and younger) have a slight disadvantage (although it is probably a good thing) because we have had a fairly mild political landscape over the past 30 years. September 11th and the subsequent war/conflict has really been the most significant event from a political standpoint. In general, I felt September 11th did more to unite all of us for the first few years. As time as passed though, that unity has dissipated while we try to figure out how to move forward.
Anyway, I am just rambling at this point because I don't have anyone else to talk to about these things. Thank you again to everyone for your input!

"Well behaved women seldom make history" - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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27-06-2012, 10:46 PM
RE: How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
(27-06-2012 04:55 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  I'm to the left fiscally/economical and socially.

I'd really need to know, how far to the right are you economically/fiscally?

If you find yourself with Tea Party Republicans, or Republicans that support similar fiscally/economically conservative ideas, then I'd have to say your ideas are contradictory. I wouldn't say grab a Bible, but you might as well jump on board with the rest of the crazy ideas, as their fiscally conservative ideas are equally detrimental, if not more detrimental, than the social ones. Also, keep in mind that those ideas are coming from the same people.

You wouldn't go outside and find the wino who constantly yells about Jesus and how we are all going to burn in hell for using condoms/birth control and having anal sex, or about brain eating aliens that are going to take over the world, then ask him, before he passes out, to give you help with your macro and calc homework.

So, it'd really depend how far you were in that direction for me to be able to give an opinion. I'd kind of need to know what type of polices you were in support of and what you opposed.
Well, I have worked within the government, so I have seen the reality of government waste first hand. Because of that, I believe that before the government starts increasing taxes, they need to make significant changes to how our current tax dollars are being spent. I like the "idea" of a national sales tax that replaces income tax, but honestly, I do not know enough about the details of such a plan to go out today and base my voting on something like that. I think there are a lot of people out there better capable of determining how their money is spent than the government, but understand that will never happen. I have no problem with corporations making a profit. I certainly don't think profit is the enemy. The more the government gets involved in corporations, the less efficient they will become. People should use their purchasing power to influence the behavior of companies instead of relying on the government.
One of the strangest areas that I support is probably the recent issues with birth control prescription coverages. I don't think the government has the right to tell religious organizations (i.e. the Catholic Church) that they MUST provide insurance coverage that includes birth control prescriptions. Honestely, I don't understand why this is even an issue. Of all the companies I have ever worked for, I have never had an insurance plan that was exactly the same. Every time I change companies and/or insurance plans, the costs of my regular prescriptions (which include birth control) change drastically. I paid $15/month with my previous company and my current company is almost $80/month. It sucks, but my other option is use another type of protection or don't have sex. Yes, there are other reasons someone may be prescribed birth control, but bottomline, the government shouldn't be regulating this in my opinion.

"Well behaved women seldom make history" - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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28-06-2012, 02:40 AM
RE: How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
(27-06-2012 10:46 PM)mhall61582 Wrote:  
(27-06-2012 04:55 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  I'm to the left fiscally/economical and socially.

I'd really need to know, how far to the right are you economically/fiscally?

If you find yourself with Tea Party Republicans, or Republicans that support similar fiscally/economically conservative ideas, then I'd have to say your ideas are contradictory. I wouldn't say grab a Bible, but you might as well jump on board with the rest of the crazy ideas, as their fiscally conservative ideas are equally detrimental, if not more detrimental, than the social ones. Also, keep in mind that those ideas are coming from the same people.

You wouldn't go outside and find the wino who constantly yells about Jesus and how we are all going to burn in hell for using condoms/birth control and having anal sex, or about brain eating aliens that are going to take over the world, then ask him, before he passes out, to give you help with your macro and calc homework.

So, it'd really depend how far you were in that direction for me to be able to give an opinion. I'd kind of need to know what type of polices you were in support of and what you opposed.
Well, I have worked within the government, so I have seen the reality of government waste first hand. Because of that, I believe that before the government starts increasing taxes, they need to make significant changes to how our current tax dollars are being spent. I like the "idea" of a national sales tax that replaces income tax, but honestly, I do not know enough about the details of such a plan to go out today and base my voting on something like that. I think there are a lot of people out there better capable of determining how their money is spent than the government, but understand that will never happen. I have no problem with corporations making a profit. I certainly don't think profit is the enemy. The more the government gets involved in corporations, the less efficient they will become. People should use their purchasing power to influence the behavior of companies instead of relying on the government.
One of the strangest areas that I support is probably the recent issues with birth control prescription coverages. I don't think the government has the right to tell religious organizations (i.e. the Catholic Church) that they MUST provide insurance coverage that includes birth control prescriptions. Honestely, I don't understand why this is even an issue. Of all the companies I have ever worked for, I have never had an insurance plan that was exactly the same. Every time I change companies and/or insurance plans, the costs of my regular prescriptions (which include birth control) change drastically. I paid $15/month with my previous company and my current company is almost $80/month. It sucks, but my other option is use another type of protection or don't have sex. Yes, there are other reasons someone may be prescribed birth control, but bottomline, the government shouldn't be regulating this in my opinion.
The problem with a sales tax is that it is a regressive tax in that it affects the poor more adversely than the rich. Hypothetically the rich should pay the same amount since they make more they hypothetically spend more, the problem is it just ain't always so simple. Not to mention the the bottom earners would be devastated by a drastic increase in taxes. Things that are necessities, that they HAVE to buy, now cost more, as if they could afford them before. You have to have a safety net somewhere at some point. We can argue where, but it has to exist or you'll have either a.)riots, violence, & crime or b.) poor people dying for simply being poor.

"A man who dares waste an hour of his life has not discovered the value of life." - Charles Darwin
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28-06-2012, 07:42 AM
RE: How to Handle Conflicting Ideals
(27-06-2012 08:28 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(27-06-2012 06:26 PM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  I guess I do not see how fiscal concerns or stances equate to the other views of the Tea Party of Republicans in general. One can be pretty fiscally conservative and not buy into any of their social agenda


I'm just saying the Tea Party's fiscal/economical policies are as crazy, if not more crazy, than their social positions.

I'm talking about the Grover Norquist pledge signing Republicans: the no new taxes, no raising taxes on corporations or individuals, no gaining any revenues by closing loopholes, and advocate lower taxes. The people who wanted to talk about the deficit, succeed, and pretty much slammed the breaks on our recovery. Cut spending and public jobs during an economical recession. Won't support the government stimulating the economy and creating jobs, and actually want to cut spending even more.

Those are the people and the policies I'm talking about. If you support those types of fiscal/economical policies, then supporting the rest of the Tea Party's extreme policies on anti-abortion, anti-contraception, anti-immigration, anti-gay pro-religious, etc., isn't a far stretch in crazy.

So, you don't have to buy into the rest, but you might as well. The other policies are so overwhelmingly bad and detrimental that it wouldn't matter what you supported socially.



While I think tax pledges are idiotic I still do not see the leap for fiscally policy to what I can only describe as hatred. Of course you and I probably have vastly different views on economics. Thanks for the reply.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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