How to cure religious belief.......
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17-03-2017, 03:54 AM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2017 03:58 AM by JesseB.)
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
(17-03-2017 03:37 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(17-03-2017 02:42 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  So magnets are Satan?

Nah, we don't have them that powerful, yet. Maybe Thomas Paine?

We know that the brain can be manipulated with magnets, as seen in the "God Helmet" experiments.

The salient point in this story is not that they can manipulate the brain, but that they've found the specific part of the brain that, when stimulated, causes the person to shift out of "threat" mode (which apparently includes an "I should worship an invisible but powerful being" setting) and back into rationality mode, until such time as the stimulation ends and the old settings return.

If you have fears with which you cannot cope on your own, you seek security externally. One of the expressions of this is the ultimate "blankie", God.

Using people's irrational fear-center to cause a population to give up rational thinking and embrace power structures has been exploited by politicians since time immemorial. It's how the USA-PATRIOT Act got rammed through, post 9/11.

It's why the "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" sermon was so successful that it has become the business model for every aggressive brand of fundamentalism in the United States for the past two centuries (and part of our cultural model).

Fear is a well-known control/sales tactic... now we know where it's happening. And that's pretty cool.

If I remember correctly a powerful enough magnetic field will kill you. I forget what the gaus measurement though that would be lethal.

Just checked "10-9 (scientific notation didn't format right, is power of) Gauss, however, would be instantly lethal." http://solomon.as.utexas.edu/magnetar.html

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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17-03-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
A big enough magnet dropped on you will probably kill you too Tongue

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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17-03-2017, 04:12 AM
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
(17-03-2017 03:54 AM)JesseB Wrote:  If I remember correctly a powerful enough magnetic field will kill you. I forget what the gaus measurement though that would be lethal.

Just checked "10-9 (scientific notation didn't format right, is power of) Gauss, however, would be instantly lethal." http://solomon.as.utexas.edu/magnetar.html

Well, yeah. Get too close to a Megnetar star, and it'll pull the iron right out of your body Magnetto style.

[Image: X2-Magneto-Ian-McKellen-Ty-Olsson-blood.png]

Those old X-Men movies were kinda shit, but Ian McKellan was a boss.

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17-03-2017, 08:23 AM
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
(17-03-2017 03:37 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(17-03-2017 02:42 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  So magnets are Satan?

Nah, we don't have them that powerful, yet. Maybe Thomas Paine?

We know that the brain can be manipulated with magnets, as seen in the "God Helmet" experiments.

The salient point in this story is not that they can manipulate the brain, but that they've found the specific part of the brain that, when stimulated, causes the person to shift out of "threat" mode (which apparently includes an "I should worship an invisible but powerful being" setting) and back into rationality mode, until such time as the stimulation ends and the old settings return.

If you have fears with which you cannot cope on your own, you seek security externally. One of the expressions of this is the ultimate "blankie", God.

Using people's irrational fear-center to cause a population to give up rational thinking and embrace power structures has been exploited by politicians since time immemorial. It's how the USA-PATRIOT Act got rammed through, post 9/11.

It's why the "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" sermon was so successful that it has become the business model for every aggressive brand of fundamentalism in the United States for the past two centuries (and part of our cultural model).

Fear is a well-known control/sales tactic... now we know where it's happening. And that's pretty cool.

Exactly RS. That was the point of my post. I guess I should have pointed this out.

This is what we're talking about. As the article says, it's being used for depression.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/20...e-results/

Here's a visual.


[Image: 142724-144050.jpg]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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17-03-2017, 11:48 AM
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
(16-03-2017 07:14 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I mean if you want to tell me electricity and magnets don't interact at all then... Facepalm
Huh? Where I did say anything like this? I said exactly the opposite: that magnetic fields *can* affect the electrical activity of the brain.
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17-03-2017, 11:55 AM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2017 03:04 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
(17-03-2017 11:48 AM)John Derderian Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 07:14 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I mean if you want to tell me electricity and magnets don't interact at all then... Facepalm
Huh? Where I did say anything like this? I said exactly the opposite: that magnetic fields *can* affect the electrical activity of the brain.

There's a reason they call them EM waves after all. I'm gonna make me one of my own. Might amp up the current a little higher though just for shits and giggles.








There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-03-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
(16-03-2017 08:45 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Thing is this is REALLY old news, and they were only able to effect changes for like a few min. There was no indication of any lasting damage. (and they prolly used college interns... duh... lol)
The age doesn't matter. If it was unethical then, then it still is now. They're lucky that it turned out there was no lasting damage.

(16-03-2017 08:45 PM)JesseB Wrote:  If you want to keep up on what's going on in the scientific community the last place to look would be a news organization, they are often YEARS behind. And they regularly fail to understand the shit they are reporting. The information is largely accessible as long as you know how to look.
Valid point, but again the age of the study isn't relevant to my taking issue with it.

(16-03-2017 08:45 PM)JesseB Wrote:  (and please avoid creepy conspiracy sites....)
Please explain, because this seems like a lame attempt to delegitimize my point. Hopefully, I misunderstood you.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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17-03-2017, 02:48 PM
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
Transcranial magnetic stimulation is a very experimental thing. But currently it is being used as a treatment of depression when a patient has not responded to or has exhausted all or most other therapies. Though experimental, it is proving to be somewhat successful with depression.

A related transcranial procedure - direct current stimulation.
This is a Radiolab podcast about transcranial direct current stimulation TDCS. It's about 30 minutes and fascinating as FUCK ...



It's from a couple of years ago and it's where I first started hearing about this kind of meddling around with the brain. It's kind of scary - because uh, it's the fucking brain! - but also quite exciting. Shy

Only the static photo for the podcast video.

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17-03-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
(17-03-2017 02:48 PM)kim Wrote:  Transcranial magnetic stimulation is a very experimental thing. But currently it is being used as a treatment of depression when a patient has not responded to or has exhausted all or most other therapies. Though experimental, it is proving to be somewhat successful with depression.

A related transcranial procedure - direct current stimulation.
This is a Radiolab podcast about transcranial direct current stimulation TDCS. It's about 30 minutes and fascinating as FUCK ...



It's from a couple of years ago and it's where I first started hearing about this kind of meddling around with the brain. It's kind of scary - because uh, it's the fucking brain! - but also quite exciting. Shy

I see a cornucopia of new and exciting hallucinations and perceptual bleach and other cleaning solvents to be experienced. William Blake would approve. Yes

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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17-03-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: How to cure religious belief.......
(17-03-2017 01:56 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 08:45 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Thing is this is REALLY old news, and they were only able to effect changes for like a few min. There was no indication of any lasting damage. (and they prolly used college interns... duh... lol)
The age doesn't matter. If it was unethical then, then it still is now. They're lucky that it turned out there was no lasting damage.

(16-03-2017 08:45 PM)JesseB Wrote:  If you want to keep up on what's going on in the scientific community the last place to look would be a news organization, they are often YEARS behind. And they regularly fail to understand the shit they are reporting. The information is largely accessible as long as you know how to look.
Valid point, but again the age of the study isn't relevant to my taking issue with it.

(16-03-2017 08:45 PM)JesseB Wrote:  (and please avoid creepy conspiracy sites....)
Please explain, because this seems like a lame attempt to delegitimize my point. Hopefully, I misunderstood you.

I wasn't commenting on the ethics involved.
I do think you're concerns on the ethics are valid. I was just trying to be a bit silly, you know the whole college intern thing?


And I apologize for not being clear, the conspiracy site thing wasn't intended to be directed at you, again my concern is for people reading this that would respond to the first "tin hat" comment and run into their pseudoscience shell.

Also I acknowledged that I prolly over reacted a bit.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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