How to debate end timers
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25-11-2012, 02:53 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
(10-11-2012 08:59 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 06:36 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  There has been swarms of people from every generation they proclaimed the end of times were upon us do to some events.

there used to be websites that cataloged the claims from hundreds of years ago to the modern ones.

They had websites from hundreds of years ages. Shocking

Funny, maybe there was
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25-11-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
Y'all wanna know how I deal with end timers? Observe.

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08-12-2012, 08:14 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
(29-10-2012 06:11 PM)Spicetooth Wrote:  My brother is telling me the end of the world and all this weird weather is a direct result of America not listening to God.

I asked him to finally back up what he is saying so he sends me a bunch of bible verses that talk of goats with long hair, bulls and weird statues.

I asked him to explain to me how this in any way backed up anything in his original statements.

All he could say was "all I can say is when you go to church, that's school, and you just get it. Just like learning how an engine works"

To which I responded: "Well, not exactly. When I ask you to teach me about how to tune up an engine you teach me exactly that. You don't ask me to read about talking plant life or animals that don't get hair cuts?"

When you guys are done laughing, can you help me understand a better way to confront this kind of logic? It the way my whole family believes and I really would like some help refuting their end times bs.

I checked the refuting section on Seth's site and didn't see anything on this topic.

A few thoughts from a fundy who recently signed up on this forum.

Fear sells. That's the only explanation I can give for those who are also in the church but insist upon following practically whole-heartedly anyone who drones on about how the end of the world is here. And since Obama has been re-elected, such discussions have really ratcheted up. I've tried to engage in such discussions in an attempt to steer some reason into it, usually to no avail.

While I do believe there is going to be an end to everything, I don't believe this is the way to promote it.

How do you argue with said individuals? You don't, at least if you want to retain your sanity.
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08-12-2012, 08:18 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
(25-11-2012 02:47 PM)SkepticalChima Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 09:42 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Ever since organized societies started, there have been those who have prophesied its destruction. History is chockfull of doomsday predictors, thousands of them in written history, and millions of them that never made into historical conscious (every society has had its fair share equivalents of those local loonies down on the street corner, wearing a sign around their necks, foretelling the end of the world). Yet, the end does not come. Why? Because a personal conviction in delusional thought processing doesn't dictate reality. It's just a shitty prediction of future events based on flawed interpretations without a sound basis.

The diversity in characteristics between various doomsday groups is quite varied, so I'm not going to be able to address all of it. However, a common element of these apocalyptic nuts is selfishness. You've probably noticed that those who tend to sound the horn on the coming apocalypse believe they are to be spared from the reckoning that is to be cast upon humanity. They will get to watch the rest of the world burn, because humanity has angered their god (a god with the same bigoted, childish, intolerant, and irrational ways as his followers) into a seething rage, and all these natural disasters and man-made calamities are his way of expressing his dissatisfaction and upcoming castigation. In the meantime, the doomsday cult will be rewarded for their blind obedience when the apocalypse comes and be granted entrance into God's kingdom or some other paradisal equivalent. Others will perish and suffer eternal torment for the sake of these chosen few.

Sounds sort of like a sadistic self-gratification complex doesn't it? From what you have said of your family so far, they appear to be caught under this. If they view you as beyond saving, they probably would be more than content to watch you perish with the rest of the world in their hypothetical doomsday scenario. All that matters is that they get their own asses into heaven. Remember that in the New Testament, Jesus instructed his followers to abandon their families in favor of following him to the path to salvation (Jesus and his Apostles were little more than a Jewish Doomsday cult after all). It's THAT selfish and blind a belief when it comes to this sort of "judgement day" thinking.

This particular aspect of fundamental thinking (the selfishness and how their god mimics the narrow-minded characteristics of his followers almost to a fault) really highlights how religion is the manifestation and projections of man's desires and prejudices, and is little more than an oppressive tool used to control the masses into a standardized thought process that shuns critical thinking when it falls into the wrong hands (which is a majority of the time, although some would consider it to be all of the time). So although I didn't really cover how to debate against this particular form of doomsday predictors, I did give cover a bit of the psychological aspect. I don't suggest trying to dissuade your family from their beliefs since they sound dug in pretty deep, unless you want to practice your debating skills. Although I do understand that since they are family you might have a hard time refraining yourself, in which case it's worth a shot, but don't expect them to be swayed by reason, that's not what their beliefs are founded upon.

Just one more quick point, the reason they brought up that stuff about all that jibber jabber is that they are convinced that their interpretation of the Bible is indisputably correct and that there is no room for ambiguity. Of course, the Bible is an extremely unreliable book for drawing conclusive statements since its thousands of copied manuscripts agree with each other in terms of the language printed on the damn page about as much as a liberal socialist would agree with a conservative Christian fundie. Hell, even within one copy of a manuscript you get LOADS of contradictions regarding the details of events and characters. That's why there are so many different sects in Christianity, the Bible is EXTREMELY contradictory and ambiguous, and there is not single interpretation that could objectively be labeled as correct more than the others (there are interpretations however, which can clearly be labeled as even further off the deep end than others).

Hope that helped.


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08-12-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
(08-12-2012 08:14 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 06:11 PM)Spicetooth Wrote:  My brother is telling me the end of the world and all this weird weather is a direct result of America not listening to God.

I asked him to finally back up what he is saying so he sends me a bunch of bible verses that talk of goats with long hair, bulls and weird statues.

I asked him to explain to me how this in any way backed up anything in his original statements.

All he could say was "all I can say is when you go to church, that's school, and you just get it. Just like learning how an engine works"

To which I responded: "Well, not exactly. When I ask you to teach me about how to tune up an engine you teach me exactly that. You don't ask me to read about talking plant life or animals that don't get hair cuts?"

When you guys are done laughing, can you help me understand a better way to confront this kind of logic? It the way my whole family believes and I really would like some help refuting their end times bs.

I checked the refuting section on Seth's site and didn't see anything on this topic.

A few thoughts from a fundy who recently signed up on this forum.

Fear sells. That's the only explanation I can give for those who are also in the church but insist upon following practically whole-heartedly anyone who drones on about how the end of the world is here. And since Obama has been re-elected, such discussions have really ratcheted up. I've tried to engage in such discussions in an attempt to steer some reason into it, usually to no avail.

While I do believe there is going to be an end to everything, I don't believe this is the way to promote it.

How do you argue with said individuals? You don't, at least if you want to retain your sanity.
Yes, in about 5 billion years, our star will expand into a red giant and incinerate the earth.

If we have managed to settle elsewhere and escape that, then in 30 billion years the universe will have expanded to an extent that there will be nowhere else to go.

Eventually, the universe will expand to such a tenuous state that life will become impossible.

That's what you meant, right? Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2012, 09:40 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
(08-12-2012 09:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-12-2012 08:14 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  A few thoughts from a fundy who recently signed up on this forum.

Fear sells. That's the only explanation I can give for those who are also in the church but insist upon following practically whole-heartedly anyone who drones on about how the end of the world is here. And since Obama has been re-elected, such discussions have really ratcheted up. I've tried to engage in such discussions in an attempt to steer some reason into it, usually to no avail.

While I do believe there is going to be an end to everything, I don't believe this is the way to promote it.

How do you argue with said individuals? You don't, at least if you want to retain your sanity.
Yes, in about 5 billion years, our star will expand into a red giant and incinerate the earth.

If we have managed to settle elsewhere and escape that, then in 30 billion years the universe will have expanded to an extent that there will be nowhere else to go.

Eventually, the universe will expand to such a tenuous state that life will become impossible.

That's what you meant, right? Consider
I doubt we will survive for 5 billion years. Even if we did, we would be a completely different species at that point most likely, having little resemblance to our current form. Hell, if we make it for that long we might be able to enhance ourselves into superhuman cyber-organic beings that are gods in their own right.
Consider

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08-12-2012, 10:15 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
(08-12-2012 08:14 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 06:11 PM)Spicetooth Wrote:  My brother is telling me the end of the world and all this weird weather is a direct result of America not listening to God.

I asked him to finally back up what he is saying so he sends me a bunch of bible verses that talk of goats with long hair, bulls and weird statues.

I asked him to explain to me how this in any way backed up anything in his original statements.

All he could say was "all I can say is when you go to church, that's school, and you just get it. Just like learning how an engine works"

To which I responded: "Well, not exactly. When I ask you to teach me about how to tune up an engine you teach me exactly that. You don't ask me to read about talking plant life or animals that don't get hair cuts?"

When you guys are done laughing, can you help me understand a better way to confront this kind of logic? It the way my whole family believes and I really would like some help refuting their end times bs.

I checked the refuting section on Seth's site and didn't see anything on this topic.

A few thoughts from a fundy who recently signed up on this forum.

Fear sells. That's the only explanation I can give for those who are also in the church but insist upon following practically whole-heartedly anyone who drones on about how the end of the world is here. And since Obama has been re-elected, such discussions have really ratcheted up. I've tried to engage in such discussions in an attempt to steer some reason into it, usually to no avail.

While I do believe there is going to be an end to everything, I don't believe this is the way to promote it.

How do you argue with said individuals? You don't, at least if you want to retain your sanity.


You simply research for a long list of failed end-time date "prophecies" made by these so-called prophets and remind the fanatic you are talking to about how big a fool those failed prophets made of themselves.

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08-12-2012, 10:43 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
(08-12-2012 08:14 PM)Phil_GA Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 06:11 PM)Spicetooth Wrote:  My brother is telling me the end of the world and all this weird weather is a direct result of America not listening to God.

I asked him to finally back up what he is saying so he sends me a bunch of bible verses that talk of goats with long hair, bulls and weird statues.

I asked him to explain to me how this in any way backed up anything in his original statements.

All he could say was "all I can say is when you go to church, that's school, and you just get it. Just like learning how an engine works"

To which I responded: "Well, not exactly. When I ask you to teach me about how to tune up an engine you teach me exactly that. You don't ask me to read about talking plant life or animals that don't get hair cuts?"

When you guys are done laughing, can you help me understand a better way to confront this kind of logic? It the way my whole family believes and I really would like some help refuting their end times bs.

I checked the refuting section on Seth's site and didn't see anything on this topic.

A few thoughts from a fundy who recently signed up on this forum.

Fear sells. That's the only explanation I can give for those who are also in the church but insist upon following practically whole-heartedly anyone who drones on about how the end of the world is here. And since Obama has been re-elected, such discussions have really ratcheted up. I've tried to engage in such discussions in an attempt to steer some reason into it, usually to no avail.

While I do believe there is going to be an end to everything, I don't believe this is the way to promote it.

How do you argue with said individuals? You don't, at least if you want to retain your sanity.


And how exactly do you suggest we go about advertising this end of the world, or perhaps more importantly; When do you think it will happen and why?

I have one of those christmas party cracker things and a bunch of sparklers, I want to have them on hand to celebrate! I'll use the powder from the sparklers and send the end of the world off with a big bang!

(please be zombies, please! I've got a zombie plan ready!)

And yes, this is may ET debate strategy; Simultaneously make fun of the prospect and flesh out how ridiculous and flawed the ideas are.

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
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09-12-2012, 12:48 AM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2012 02:50 AM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: How to debate end timers
My response to end timers sounds suspiciously like Morpheus' speech to Zion.







Theists!

Hear me!

I stand here before you now, truthfully, unafraid! Why? Because I believe something you do you not? No! I stand here without fear because I remember. I remember that for 2000 years we have fought these dooms-dayers. I remember that for 2000 years they have spewed their prophecies of destruction. And after two millennia of prophesizing, I remember that which matters most:

WE ARE STILL HERE!

Let us make them remember. This is science! And we are not afraid!

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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09-12-2012, 05:07 PM
RE: How to debate end timers
(29-10-2012 06:11 PM)Spicetooth Wrote:  My brother is telling me the end of the world and all this weird weather is a direct result of America not listening to God.

I asked him to finally back up what he is saying so he sends me a bunch of bible verses that talk of goats with long hair, bulls and weird statues.

I asked him to explain to me how this in any way backed up anything in his original statements.

All he could say was "all I can say is when you go to church, that's school, and you just get it. Just like learning how an engine works"

To which I responded: "Well, not exactly. When I ask you to teach me about how to tune up an engine you teach me exactly that. You don't ask me to read about talking plant life or animals that don't get hair cuts?"

When you guys are done laughing, can you help me understand a better way to confront this kind of logic? It the way my whole family believes and I really would like some help refuting their end times bs.

I checked the refuting section on Seth's site and didn't see anything on this topic.

My brother is telling me the end of the world and all this weird weather is a direct result of America not listening to God.

Answer: Tell him that there are 38000 (a theist count) Christian denominations, 15000 of them here in the U.S. alone. Which leaves 14999 with opposing views on god, the bible and it TRUE meaning. So what this means is America isn’t the problem, it’s Christians not listening to their god! : )

I asked him to finally back up what he is saying so he sends me a bunch of bible verses that talk of goats with long hair, bulls and weird statues.

Answer: Bible verses written by self-proclaim illiterates writing in Greek…..ask him how that works as there are no biblical works originating in their native Arabic.

I asked him to explain to me how this in any way backed up anything in his original statements.

Answer: Ask why god created the first day on the second day and where did all the four legged spiders go(?)….insects that crepith or fly…baby spiders fly and have eight legs and insects six…

All he could say was "all I can say is when you go to church, that's school, and you just get it. Just like learning how an engine works"

Answer: Ask him where the nearest Christian Nazi church is….

To which I responded: "Well, not exactly. When I ask you to teach me about how to tune up an engine you teach me exactly that. You don't ask me to read about talking plant life or animals that don't get hair cuts?"

Answer: Nice one…

When you guys are done laughing, can you help me understand a better way to confront this kind of logic? It the way my whole family believes and I really would like some help refuting their end times bs.

Answer: incremental-ism towards Education and reading the bible and understanding it….believers never read the bible, have him do that and then ask why he apologies for god and is in conflict with and constantly rejecting his own bible.
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