How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
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21-03-2017, 04:38 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
If it turned out one was wrong, or all of them were wrong, so what? No one (sane) makes life decisions based on the theory of evolution or whatever. And no one goes around trying to convince other people to believe in it "on faith", they can simply point them to the evidence. And no one tells them how to live their life because of what the theory says.

No one lays awake at night, scared of how the theory of evolution will judge their actions. No one begs the theory to do things for them, instead of just getting on and doing them as best they can.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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21-03-2017, 05:40 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(20-03-2017 10:06 PM)Menji Wrote:  The hardest argument is about Pascal's Wager, but I could give my logical reasoning to explain.

Pascal's Wager is an extremely bad argument.

It assumes that one can change one's belief according to one's desire. We do not choose our beliefs. We are convinced that our beliefs are true but we cannot choose what convinces us.

It assumes that we can fool an omniscient god. We don't really believe, but we're going to say we believe to avoid hell. And an omniscient, omnipotent god will fall for that?

There are more ways that Pascal's is wrong, but those two, IMO, are the biggest fallacies.

(20-03-2017 10:06 PM)Menji Wrote:  "How do you really know that scientific evidence is a fact?
Because scientific evidence is testable, verifiable and repeatable. With the proper knowledge and understanding, anyone can perform the experiments and verify the results.

(20-03-2017 10:06 PM)Menji Wrote:  Yes we know the earth is round, not flat. But how do you know?

Science.

(20-03-2017 10:06 PM)Menji Wrote:  You just took the word from scientist or science books or even science teacher in your elementary school. But you, yourself, doesn't not see the real evidence.

Yes we do.

PBS

The above article lists (7) DIY (do-it-yourself) experiments that prove the earth is round. OK, six. One involves going into space. Not exactly DIY, but still...

(20-03-2017 10:06 PM)Menji Wrote:  So, I just said to him that he had a very good point and I have no good answer for him.

There is nothing wrong with admitting that, moving the conversation on, or ending it. Then you go out and find the answers.

(20-03-2017 10:06 PM)Menji Wrote:  The question lingers until now for me. He had a really good point. How do we know evolution is truly a fact when only the scientists who see the evidence...

MRSA.

(20-03-2017 10:06 PM)Menji Wrote:  The evidence is not in our hand, it's on the scientists hand. Why we should believe them? I think we must admit that we really have never see the evidence ourselves.

Scientific evidence is there for everyone to see and examine. The average person can learn the basics of the various sciences. The information is out there, on the internet, in textbooks, libraries, classrooms. All it takes is desire and effort.

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21-03-2017, 05:42 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
"Yes we know the earth is round, not flat. But how do you know? You just took the word from scientist or science books or even science teacher in your elementary school. But you, yourself, doesn't not see the real evidence."

Actually, you do see real evidence. For any scientific claim there will be reams of information explaining the experiments done in excruciating detail along with the conclusions. If you want to take the time and effort you can review their reasoning in detail. Science, unlike religion, does not operate on claims from authority or revelation.

In addition, as others have already said, science works on the principle of peer review and that serves to eliminate wrong ideas. The process can be imperfect and slow but it gets there. New scientific claims should be accepted only provisionally because they need to be reviewed and tested over time and the stranger the claim the more caution is needed. Claims that have withstood the test of time are almost certainly true even if you personally have not seen the evidence because the process works.

It is because the process works that I can be justified in accepting scientific claims without seeing the evidence myself. I know that the evidence is there. The same can't be said for religious claims; in that arena the number of people who believe and the length of time they have believed means nothing because they can't produce the evidence even when asked. There is no process for culling bad ideas except for their popularity.




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21-03-2017, 06:14 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
What does science say about how cold & heat affects water. Does water change from a liquid to a solid when it gets cold enough ? Do the experiment to find out.
Does liquid water boil and turn to steam when it is hot enough ? More specifically does it happen at 100 C (212 F) ? Do the experiment.

Look up chemistry experiments you can do at home.
Test them to see if they are accurate.

Bake a cake
Cook an egg
Build a fire

Start a fire using a magnifying glass.
Look in a mirror to check its reflective properties.

It's not a belief in science. It's trust.
A reliable trust in how science approaches every experiment. They provide every detail about how each experiment is done so that anyone with the same equipment and knowledge in the subject can repeat the experiment and reproduce the same exact results.

I trust in the peer review process because human beings love to prove people wrong. We love to show that we are smarter than others and we will do everything in our power to run through a 1000 tests to try and prove the other fellow is wrong.

But when we can't, we become satisfied that this experiment is truthful and factual.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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21-03-2017, 06:25 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
How do we know that the OP ain't a troll?

My faith is weak. Big Grin

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21-03-2017, 06:33 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(21-03-2017 06:25 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  How do we know that the OP ain't a troll?

I'd actually bet that he/she is trolling but the question is common so it's good for lurkers to see how wrong it is.

Quote:My faith is weak. Big Grin

Good!
Thumbsup

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21-03-2017, 06:46 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(21-03-2017 06:33 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-03-2017 06:25 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  How do we know that the OP ain't a troll?

I'd actually bet that he/she is trolling but the question is common so it's good for lurkers to see how wrong it is.

Hypothesis: water expands when frozen.

Experiment: Fill a plastic soda bottle with water and place it in the freezer.

People that think there's faith and/or magic involved are just dumb. Laugh out load

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21-03-2017, 07:28 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
We can't "know" pretty much anything. However, if you wanted to check the veracity of the claims of science, you can. It's possible for you to study science yourself, run the equations yourself, conduct experiments yourself, and get the same results as the scientists have. (or get different results, in which case maybe you'll be helping to make new discoveries) So my position in regards to science is that I can have a high level of confidence that it's a) correct or b) somewhere in the self-correction process.

Try to imagine this process of education, theorizing, and experimentation applied to religion. Imagine that prayer was an effective way to influence events--that's a claim that many religious people make. Imagine that in order to get a master's in divinity, candidates had to develop and document effective prayer protocols that could be used reliably to cure childhood leukemia or turn away hurricanes. And people have been praying for millennia, there's been plenty of time to figure out what will influence god, there's all these books proclaiming it...why haven't religious experts figured this out?

It's my opinion that "I know" in religion means "I feel." "I know" in science means "I'm have confidence," and it's a category mistake to conflate them.
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21-03-2017, 07:46 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(21-03-2017 07:28 AM)julep Wrote:  We can't "know" pretty much anything.

I know I love my Gwynnies! Laugh out load

sorry, it's been one of those days Hobo

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21-03-2017, 08:02 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
Hi OP Smile

Science has a review process - peer review. It's not perfect - many people have tried to game the system over the years, done fake research etc. But overall it works pretty well.

Claims of truth by a scientist are fact checked, not just by reviewers, but also by people who work in the field who want to build on the results that the scientist has obtained. Anything that someone says is true and can't be confirmed is easily rejected, or at least marked as suspicious by researchers working in the relevant field.

Even when something is confirmed by others, the review process doesn't end. People reinterpret old data and results all the time, and come up with new ideas that are then tested. Sometimes the same person who came up with an idea that is well-regarded is the person who later disproves it.

The reason you can trust scientific results is that there is this review process. It's way more in depth than any other review process that you can think of - the most in-depth audit of your finances, or the most thorough school inspection, or the absolute most diabolical health inspectors, because people *use* scientific results all the time, and if those results are not quite what they claim to be, the people trying to use them will very quickly find out and write up a paper refuting the previous person's assertion.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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