How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
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31-03-2017, 05:29 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
The scientific theory of evolution is the explanation for the scientific fact that things evolve, I think.

How do we KNOW that scientific facts are in fact facts?

Well... depends what your epistemology is.

If you have a very strict epistemology you could say that ULTIMATELY no one knows anything 100% besides their own existence, the fact they are conscious, the law of identity and verbal and mathematical tautologies.

But that's a very strict epistemology. There is also RELATIVE knowledge surely. And surely it would not be unreasonable to say that when something has evidence we have relative knowledge of it just as if something has absolute proof we have absolute knowledge of it.
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31-03-2017, 07:30 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
Menji, my skeptical brain says that you are the friend. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. However, I am confident that you are using a computer, in some form.

I have absolutely no understanding of what those guys at Bell Labs were doing before or after announcing the invention of the transistor 70 years ago. But, I suspect that one or two other groups immediately dropped everything to reproduce their results. I think that is called science, but you might want to check your Bible to make sure.

Why do you take aspirin, acetaminophen or hydrocodone for pain? Let me take a wild guess. You know damn well that the structure and efficacy of these compounds have been reproduced many times by many groups of chemists and pharmacologists. I suspect you trust the science in these cases. And if you have ever had, like me, a dry socket or a burning inguinal hernia…Oh Hell, you might even pray to God while swallowing a Vicodin.

Well, I could go on. But, what is the point.


Judas asks Christ a simple question:
Why did you choose such a backward time and such a strange land?
I only want to know.
From Jesus Christ Superstar
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31-03-2017, 07:46 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(31-03-2017 01:29 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-03-2017 10:24 PM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  Menji said,


If it takes science to figure out the things we see in the earth, sea, sky, and universe, then it must have been science that created it.

Are you trolling or just dumb? Facepalm

Just more derogatory belittling bullshit. If you don't have the intelligence to reply sensibly, then get off the toilet. You must be shitting your brains out on a daily basis. It's pretty obvious your arrogant self is not occupying that pea brain lodged in your head. Grow up, stop the bullshit, and reply with the intelligence and common sense of at least an eight year old.

And then you accuse me of trolling! Hypocrite!
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31-03-2017, 08:03 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(31-03-2017 07:46 AM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 01:29 AM)morondog Wrote:  Are you trolling or just dumb? Facepalm

Just more derogatory belittling bullshit. If you don't have the intelligence to reply sensibly, then get off the toilet. You must be shitting your brains out on a daily basis. It's pretty obvious your arrogant self is not occupying that pea brain lodged in your head. Grow up, stop the bullshit, and reply with the intelligence and common sense of at least an eight year old.

And then you accuse me of trolling! Hypocrite!

Is English your first language?

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31-03-2017, 08:04 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(31-03-2017 07:46 AM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 01:29 AM)morondog Wrote:  Are you trolling or just dumb? Facepalm

Just more derogatory belittling bullshit. If you don't have the intelligence to reply sensibly, then get off the toilet. You must be shitting your brains out on a daily basis. It's pretty obvious your arrogant self is not occupying that pea brain lodged in your head. Grow up, stop the bullshit, and reply with the intelligence and common sense of at least an eight year old.

And then you accuse me of trolling! Hypocrite!

Yeah, that's a reply befitting of a truly wise man. If you don't wanna be belittled, maybe quit being such a shitstain?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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31-03-2017, 08:16 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(31-03-2017 08:04 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 07:46 AM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  Just more derogatory belittling bullshit. If you don't have the intelligence to reply sensibly, then get off the toilet. You must be shitting your brains out on a daily basis. It's pretty obvious your arrogant self is not occupying that pea brain lodged in your head. Grow up, stop the bullshit, and reply with the intelligence and common sense of at least an eight year old.

And then you accuse me of trolling! Hypocrite!

Yeah, that's a reply befitting of a truly wise man. If you don't wanna be belittled, maybe quit being such a shitstain?

Here you go again displaying your arrogant trolling idiotic self. Would you please stop with the bullshit. Do you even have the least bit of common sense in your being? How about getting off the toilet for once.

The only difference between you and that old dried out piece of crusty white dog shit on my front lawn is....that old crusty piece of white dried out dog shit doesn't stink any more.
If you want to get rid of me just say so. I'm getting just as fucking tired of you as I am of Christians. Are you sure you're NOT a believer?
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31-03-2017, 09:35 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(31-03-2017 08:16 AM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 08:04 AM)morondog Wrote:  Yeah, that's a reply befitting of a truly wise man. If you don't wanna be belittled, maybe quit being such a shitstain?

Here you go again displaying your arrogant trolling idiotic self. Would you please stop with the bullshit. Do you even have the least bit of common sense in your being? How about getting off the toilet for once.

The only difference between you and that old dried out piece of crusty white dog shit on my front lawn is....that old crusty piece of white dried out dog shit doesn't stink any more.
If you want to get rid of me just say so. I'm getting just as fucking tired of you as I am of Christians. Are you sure you're NOT a believer?

See, I'll just leave the interested reader to judge between the two of us, which is a cunt and which is a genuine guy.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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31-03-2017, 09:48 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(31-03-2017 09:35 AM)morondog Wrote:  See, I'll just leave the interested reader to judge between the two of us, which is a cunt and which is a genuine guy.

Hmmm, how to choose...how to choose...

Angel

(Just kidding)
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31-03-2017, 10:24 AM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(20-03-2017 10:06 PM)Menji Wrote:  Okay. I have been an non-believer almost a year now. It's a long process and I cannot really pinpoint the reason of my deconversion. But surely, other than justice and the bible itself, science took a great part in my reasoning.

For the past year, I could explain my point of view and reasoning why I became an atheist when my friends ask about my deconversion. The hardest argument is about Pascal's Wager, but I could give my logical reasoning to explain. My problem is, a few weeks ago, one of my friends ask about my scientific evidence to support my disbelief. As I explained long enough, he strucked me with a question

"How do you really know that scientific evidence is a fact? Yes we know the earth is round, not flat. But how do you know? You just took the word from scientist or science books or even science teacher in your elementary school. But you, yourself, doesn't not see the real evidence. That's sounds like believing to me. You believe in science, and despite you don't see the actual evidence, you just take the word from scientists. No different like us, the believer, take the word from priests."

After he said that, I don't know what to say. And I came to my though that "yes, it's a very good argument." So, I just said to him that he had a very good point and I have no good answer for him.

The question lingers until now for me. He had a really good point. How do we know evolution is truly a fact when only the scientists who see the evidence (we didn't see the actual minerals ourselves)? not us. How even do we know the earth is 4.6 billion years old, when we only knew it because we read science books (it's like reading a bible, huh?) or see a seminar from a distinguished astrophysics? How do we know the universe is 13.7 billion years old, when we know because we see a documentary?

The evidence is not in our hand, it's on the scientists hand. Why we should believe them? I think we must admit that we really have never see the evidence ourselves.

I know that evolution is a fact, and other scientific evidence are factual. But I don't have the words nor reasoning to explain it to my friends question. (he also consider the scientific evidence are factual, he is a nice liberal Christian).

I wish some of you could give me some insights about this question. thank you!Thumbsup

The proponent of an idea, in this case God, has the burden of proof. If there is no proof or there is reasonable doubt, then the right thing is to approach life as if God does not exist.

Yours is an interesting question. It demonstrates the fixation of religious believers on the 100% proof type of world view. A view, where any doubts they can point to in science, is proof that they in turn should have license to believe any nonsense. They assume that all doubts are made equal. If there are slight inconsistencies in a scientific theory, why can't I believe in dragons? they say.

The way to deal with that is not by dismissing the role that belief - I am using the term very loosely - or doubt plays in our lives, but rather in how that belief is influenced by inputs from the real world. Because, of course there are doubts, and arguing otherwise just feeds the fallacy they are promoting.

If you hold a religious belief, contradictory information from the world will be molded to fit your beliefs. It is generally seen as a knock against the belief system, hence the tendency to resist it. Scientific "beliefs" conversely, will be molded to fit with the new feedback from the real world. A subtle but important difference.

Uncertainty is always going to be there. The difference is how you deal with it. Religious belief generally sucks at incorporating uncertainty. Because its foundations are certainty - it's important not to confuse this term with correctness. For science uncertainty, new doubts...those are part of its lifeblood.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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31-03-2017, 01:38 PM
RE: How we do know that scientific evidence is a fact?
(30-03-2017 10:24 PM)Jack Hammer Wrote:  Menji said,

Quote:Okay. I have been an non-believer almost a year now. It's a long process and I cannot really pinpoint the reason of my deconversion. But surely, other than justice and the bible itself, science took a great part in my reasoning.

If it takes science to figure out the things we see in the earth, sea, sky, and universe, then it must have been science that created it.

What does this even mean?
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