How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
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28-11-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(28-11-2014 12:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 11:27 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  You've pulled out the only means to have full joy and ultimate fulfillment in life thru a personal relationship with your Creator who is personal and relational. You've traded a life of SELF which will never give you ultimate meaning and purpose because apart from God, everything else is temporary, perishing, and incapable of deeply filling you. It took me some time to realize this too.

Yes, you do thru life on a narrow focused Course of Reality, but youll miss the whole point of living if you don't get beyond SELF . It will be a shallow level of existence and when you arrive on your deathbed, youll look back and feel a void which never got filled. Temporary stuff isn't capable of filling the void and neither are the accomplishments of a nice house with white picket fence, luxury cars, a big paycheck , and all the sex you can muster up.

The poison arrow is Humanism and its creed to make SELF 'god' of ones life. Only by becoming #2 in your life will you ever realize what life is really all about . Its when we take a back seat to God that we discover Ourselves. Humanism principles are nothing but ropes that enslave us with the promise of great fulfillment in life but it cant deliver . It wasn't meant to.

You are a delusional twat. Why are you even here?

He wants to save souls

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28-11-2014, 12:33 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(28-11-2014 10:39 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 09:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No.
That's how YOU define a god.
It might work for an ignoramus such as you. In fact, it doesn't work at all.

In fact a god who "creates" is incoherent :
1. It has to CHANGE it's mind, and *decide* to create.
2. The *act* of creation proves it's not an infinite god, as the *act* places an endpoint to it's "infinite" past, and "infinite" future.

...............

You haven't answered the question about at what exact improbable number, you find you must invoke a god, (re: ID).

Two parts --------

1. It is not incoherent for a First Cause to create something . Here on Earth, every THING or EVENT that occurs has a First Cause or reason for it . So why doesn't the whole Shebang of the Cosmos have a First Cause to it ; it came into existence from nothing including time, space, matter, laws to govern it, fine tuned life enabling parameters . What is it about a personal Theistic Creator that rubs you up the wrong way then ? Would you be ok with him existing ?

1.a. True, the First Cause of anything which has personal effects that we can observe, measure, discern MUST be Personal itself . Are you troubled with a Creator who is PERSONAL then ?

1.b. True, the First Cause of anything that comes to exist when it didn't have to, has a Will as well. That is, the First Cause has the ability to CHOOSE what he wants to exist and what he doesn't . We have free Will and other NON material entities....because the First Cause of everything does too. If you cant accept that, then tell us how FreeWill, emotions, love, abstract thinking, reason and logic came from pure material atoms ? You cant because its absurd.

2. ONLY a finite act, carries with it an endpoint ; but if something as our Universe is the FIRST ACT which came from nothing, then there must be a Cause outside of the first finite act (event) . Every Cosmologist knows this so its either : We got our Universe which has boundless examples of design, engineering, personal attributes that are discoverable ...from a First Cause having the same personal intelligent attributes we contain....or.....Nothing produced something as our Universe from nothing (the height of absurdity) . Matter or energy isn't the First Cause because it hadn't come into existence yet either. A blind random Force of some kind isn't the First Cause because a Force isn't personal nor it is intelligent with a will .

I don't 'invoke' a God as a Gap measure ; I show why a personal intelligent Theistic Creator (viz God) is absolutely necessary as the First Cause --- not because its emotionally satisfying to me or that I need a crutch . Conversely, the person who demands he stays an 'Atheist' has the Reverse God of the Gaps creed where he/she must never allow a Divine First Cause thru the door and demands Natural Causes be responsible for highly personal and intelligent Effects. That's not right and its disingenuous. This is why Atheism is illogical unreasonable and why I had to get out of it even though it was highly conducive to my choice of lifestyles I wanted to pursue for personal gratification.

The rule of first cause exists, or it doesn't. If it exists, it applies to your god as well, what caused god? I know the answer actually....man, since man created god.

A personal intelligent theistic creator wouldnt have sat idly by as 14 million jews got marched into the ovens, allowed babies to be born with terminal diseases, designed a sun that gives us cancer and on and on and on. I can't disprove a god existing, although a thinking person would surmise with the zero evidence available, one doesnt exist..., just as you cant prove god. I can disprove the abrahamic god as it is a complete construct by man traceable back to its fabrication.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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28-11-2014, 12:44 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
What purpose drove you to join this forum, ask questions to which you deny all answers you receive, as well as evade answering directly questions asked in return?
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28-11-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(28-11-2014 12:20 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 12:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are a delusional twat. Why are you even here?

He wants to save souls

Yabut, atheists don't have souls - it's a well-known fact. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-11-2014, 12:52 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(28-11-2014 11:27 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  You've pulled out the only means to have full joy and ultimate fulfillment in life thru a personal relationship with your Creator who is personal and relational.

Bollocks. I have all the joy and fulfilment I actually want. I'm not a pleasure junkie. I have more in common with the ancient Stoics than I ever had with the Christian worldview.

Quote:Temporary stuff isn't capable of filling the void and neither are the accomplishments of a nice house with white picket fence, luxury cars, a big paycheck , and all the sex you can muster up.

*cough* Streets of gold... The "many mansions" of John 14:2... *cough*

BTW, I do not want for material things but neither do I want material things. I have an old house that I'm upgrading and beautifying, a 10-year-old Toyota in good repair, and an adequate but not ludicrous paycheque. As for the sex, My libido was last seen pictured on the side of a milk carton -- And then I misplaced the milk carton, too. Tongue IOW, I'm having as much sex as I actually want at the moment, which is none.

Quote:You've traded a life of SELF which will never give you ultimate meaning and purpose...

"Ultimate meaning and purpose" are not possible in the context of eternity, because in eternity it is not possible to reach the point of it all. I saw this in a vision when I was 11 years old, and everything that has happened in the intervening years has just reinforced this perception.

Quote:because apart from God, everything else is temporary, perishing, and incapable of deeply filling you.

If your alleged god attempts to "fill" Me without My express permission, I will quite cheerfully reach for the closest sharp object and do it a revision bris a bit higher up, plus a complimentary bilateral orchiectomy.

Quote:The poison arrow is Humanism and its creed to make SELF 'god' of ones life.

Without getting all Inigo Montoya on you, I suggest that you actually research the humanist creed and go with the standard definition, rather than hanging a noose and a crudely-labeled sign that reads "O noes! Iz a Hoomanist!" around the neck of a straw man you've already set ablaze.

Quote:Only by becoming #2 in your life will you ever realize what life is really all about.

Life is "all about" what individual entities perceive it to be subjectively. It's different for everyone, and I see no advantage in overlaying the perspective of a god onto that of a mortal unless one wants to become a god in one's own right. Seeing as your god seems to have a major problem with that concept (q.v. Genesis 3 and subsequent expulsion from Eden for acquiring god-like knowledge), this is a dead end.

There is also no value to be gained by blotting out one's human perspective and replacing it with a divine one; that's like banning pistachio, chocolate and strawberry ice cream and replacing it all with a vanilla so strong you can never get the taste out of your mouth. Your god might as well just snap its divine fingers and assimilate the lot of us into the Collective right here and now, because a relationship with it is too one-sided to be worth having.
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28-11-2014, 12:56 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
Cocaine > God
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28-11-2014, 12:57 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(28-11-2014 12:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 12:20 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  He wants to save souls

Yabut, atheists don't have souls - it's a well-known fact. Yes

To be real, no one has a soul, some people are just to delusional to realize it. Drinking Beverage

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28-11-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(28-11-2014 12:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-11-2014 12:20 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  He wants to save souls

Yabut, atheists don't have souls - it's a well-known fact. Yes

Not true, Chas. I have several Drinking Beverage
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I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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28-11-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
Lol Smerc, I need to be cautious not to have mine stolen! Tongue

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28-11-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(28-11-2014 12:44 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  What purpose drove you to join this forum, ask questions to which you deny all answers you receive, as well as evade answering directly questions asked in return?

(23-11-2014 02:56 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  As my Addy says, im a Theist. I believe it is an enormous Impossibility that there isn't a personal Agent/Architect/Creator for our Universe which has personal , intelligent-based, and information-laden effects to it. So, im here to investigate why the Atheist Community thinks that it is possible . I look forward to meeting lots of people here and to cordially discussing our differing viewpoints based on modern scientific evidences .

Thank you.

This is Humble's first post. Humble right? Note how he mentions *investigating why* and *cordially discussing* stuff... and a few posts later on...

Here he is telling us what we believe:
(24-11-2014 11:55 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  True. Atheism in its Secular Humanism form IS about worshipping SELF with its popular creed reading : ' Man is the measure of all things' . Instead of worshipping Ones Creator who is also the Creator of the Cosmos, SELF gets worshipped which springboards into Narcissism . Either God is allowed to be God in ones life, or, One makes SELF ones own 'god' ... and because its the latter that represents our culture today, we are paying an enormous price thru the societal ills we face as a morally bankrupt nation. This is what occurs in any Nation where God isn't wanted nor his loving protective absolute moral mandates to live by. It only gets worse and worse. Its a religion of worshipping SELF which was never meant to be . Here it is all spelled out quite clearly : http://www.christianforums.com/t7841230

And...
(25-11-2014 11:54 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  Forget your high held chaos theory as well as your built up pride and willful rebellion against our Creator ...instead, give him a chance in your life which is what your ultimate purpose is for being here.
Humbly telling us not to rebel against his God, because that's very very naughty...

Y'know, humble fuckhead, you're basically a liar. I mean, you said you were here to learn and discuss, and then you proceeded to not learn a damn thing and to preach at us. So actually, FUCK you. You little prick.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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