How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
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25-11-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(25-11-2014 01:30 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  You can give the Creator any name you desire -- historically he has given himself the name of Jesus or Yahweh .

I find evasive replies like this one to be a hallmark of intellectual dishonesty. Why don't just speak straightforwardly and tell us what YOU call "him". Consider

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25-11-2014, 02:53 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(24-11-2014 10:45 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-11-2014 10:19 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  In order -----------

1. Information are deliberate messages that consist of specified complexity

No, that is not what information is. Information is any kind of event that affects the state of a dynamic system.

Quote: as in the DNA molecule and a blueprint of instructions on how to reach a final goal in a system via am assembly process.

No, DNA is not a blueprint for an assembly process and does not contain any goal, nor information in the sense you misunderstand it to be.

Fetal development is growth with continuous morphological change as the chemical environment surrounding the fetus changes.

Quote:Where did this willful purposed Information come from in the very first life form ? Can you demonstrate an example of information coming from something other than intelligent input ? Do so. If you came down the stairs in the morning and there on the table were the words : 'Have a nice day honey' using alphabet cereal, would you assume the cat knocked the box of cereal over ? Do you believe it is a possibility given an infinite number of tries from the Cat ?

Chemistry is the answer, not your misunderstanding of information.

Quote:2. The theorized Big Bang is a finite event, but where did the Energy come from for it to bang ?

We don't know for certain.

Quote:3. Big Bang cosmology has all the matter wound up tightly in less space than a pinhead

No, it doesn't. It is all energy, no matter. Matter does not exist until the universe has expanded and cooled sufficiently.

Quote:so where did the matter come from along with the energy to expand both ? What was the non intelligent First Cause which willed this to occur ?

We don't know for certain.

Quote:4. Explain how (animate) life came from dead non-DNA matter consisting of atoms ? Cogently explain the actual process that a rock can birth a living life form of any kind regardless of size .

We don't know for certain, but there are several good hypotheses for abiogenesis, none of which involve rocks giving birth to living life forms.

Quote:1.,2,3. The Laws of logic, physics, chemistry,math came with the Big Bang and govern the sustenance of our Universe/Solar System/Earth -- man didn't bring them into being because Man wasn't at the beginning. How did these unchanging Laws come about from raw materials and raw chemicals without a shred of intelligent direction ?

Physical laws are human descriptions of human observations of the natural world.

Quote:4. If morality is a varying manmade construct , then it is not objective ;

Correct, there is no objective morality.

Quote:this means that there is no absolute standard for judging what is truly right from wrong

Correct, there is no absolute standard.

Quote:and is thus just a persons opinion or a Groups opinion.

No, not quite. Humans evolved as a social species and our feelings of empathy, fairness, caring for our young, sacrificing all evolved because they were beneficial.

Quote:If there are no absolute moral laws then why do Moral Relativists get very upset when Someone violates them morally for it might be the opinion of the Violator his action was not incorrect to do toward you ------ yet the Victim vehemently objects to being morally violated and feels absolute about it . If there are no absolute moral laws, then why do we hide a wrong we do so no one will find out if it isn't really objectively wrong ?

Because there are negative consequences for violating society's rules.

Quote:5. If the brain is nothing but the compilations of atoms then explain how non-atom Thoughts arise from these atoms --- detail the precise process please. Where in the brain can a thought be found ? Where is the Mind located in the Human Anatomy ?

Thoughts don't "arise from these atoms", thoughts arise from the complex pattern of chemicals and structures of the brain.

We don't know all the details, but neuroscientists are working on it.


Just wanted to say how excellent that was Chas. Thumbsup

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25-11-2014, 03:17 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2014 03:23 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(24-11-2014 09:18 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  The traditional Atheistic Worldview boils down to Materialism and Naturalism without a trace of any intelligent input -----

A. Naturalism : Attempts to explain all phenomina by natural causes and laws.

Questions : 1. Where did information come from ?

That sounds like a philosophical question. In terms of where does information come from though, I can only state the obvious: It comes from the reality around us.

Quote:2. Where did Energy come from ?


Well... Define what you mean. Do you mean before the big bang? If so... Well then, we don't know (but I am sure we plan on trying to find out).

In the mean time, I will link you to a lecture from Stephen Hawking on the origins of the Universe, might help you: http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-origin-of-...verse.html

Quote:3. Where did Matter come from ?


I don't know (but I assume it has to deal with the energy, etc) . But I plan on finding out. It's like us not fully knowing everything about the universe is a mark against us. It's not. In fact, it's one of the best things about science.

Theists "know," Scientists find out.

Quote:4. Where did Life come from (the very first DNA molecule which according to Dawkins has enough specified informational instructions in it to fill 1,000 volumes of encyclopedias) ?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller–Urey_experiment

Also, why do you have the underlying assumption that it had to be as complex as DNA to produce things that are 'living'. Surely a much simpler compound can start a process which could become the complex DNA Dawkins mentions.

Quote: B. Materialism : The Doctrine that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications.

Questions : 1. What about the Laws of logic ? 2. What about the Laws of Science ? 3. What about the Laws of Mathematics ? 4.What about the Laws of Morality ? 5. Where did Consciousness come from (the animate from the inanimate such as reason, logic, will, love, abstract thinking, etc... derived from atoms . Explain the process ) ?

All of those concepts are derived from material things.

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25-11-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(25-11-2014 11:49 AM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  You don't have enough faith to be a true Atheist

I don't give a rat's ass about being a "true" anything. It suffices to not believe.

Quote:pride/rebellion/arrogance perhaps because those things are required when you don't want our Creator to exist.

Well, pride/rebellion/arrogance didn't stop your imaginary friend from knocking Paul the Antichrist off his high horse and into belief -- At least in the myth that Paul the Antichrist cobbled together.

Seriously, what does wanting a god to not exist have to do with it? Its failure to convince Me of its existence shows where the real power dwells in this situation.
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25-11-2014, 05:15 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
1) An un evidenced, unverifiable God possesses certain presupposed attributes as found in religious propaganda, folklore and literature.

2) It is impossible for any presupposed un evidenced entity to attain any verifiable attributes without the intervention of a creative entity.

3) Overwhelming evidence indicates that humans create and compose propaganda, folklore and literature having to do with all gods.

Therefore a creative entity superior to all presupposed gods exists, and that entity is man.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

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25-11-2014, 06:44 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(25-11-2014 02:00 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  As an evidential Christian Apologist, I make my case for a personal Creator from the established scientific evidence and not from the common misconception of 'circular reasoning' starting with God MUST exist . He exists because our reality demands a personal theistic Creator can only be responsible for it.

Please, show me what non-presuppositional evidence you have for a theistic creator-god. No presupposing. No circular reasoning.

Note: unanswered questions are just God of the Gaps fallacies and are not actual evidence.
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25-11-2014, 08:34 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2014 11:45 PM by Rahn127.)
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
Little theist, I think a large part of the problem is that you have a hard time dealing with nature.

Nature does stuff and you can't accept that it does it all by itself without someone pushing it or guiding it.

You know those highways in the mountains that have signs, "Danger falling rock" ?
I get the impression that you don't understand how that rock could fall on its own unless someone pushed it. Someone must be responsible.

So really this all comes down to you not accepting that natural things occur without anyone causing them to happen. You don't like the forces of nature. Because if the forces of nature can do everything, then where does that leave your god ?

Out in the cold with nothing to do.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-11-2014, 08:53 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(25-11-2014 02:53 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Just wanted to say how excellent that was Chas. Thumbsup

Thank you.

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25-11-2014, 10:12 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
I need artwork for this from someone with a shred of talent at cartooning.

A couple of armored medieval footmen watch from the battlements of an impressive castle as, outside the wall, moat, etc, a lone peasant with a pitchfork attacks a straw dummy.

Peasant: "HAH! IS THIS THE BEST YOU CAN DEFEND YOURSELF? I'M TEARING YOU TO SHREDS!"
Footman 1: "Do you want to tell him, or should I?"
Footman 2: "He wouldn't listen anyway."

If the original poster doesn't get the joke, here.
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25-11-2014, 10:21 PM
RE: How well can Atheistic Humanists defend their Worldview/Origins ?
(25-11-2014 10:12 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  I need artwork for this from someone with a shred of talent at cartooning.

A couple of armored medieval footmen watch from the battlements of an impressive castle as, outside the wall, moat, etc, a lone peasant with a pitchfork attacks a straw dummy.

Peasant: "HAH! IS THIS THE BEST YOU CAN DEFEND YOURSELF? I'M TEARING YOU TO SHREDS!"
Footman 1: "Do you want to tell him, or should I?"
Footman 2: "He wouldn't listen anyway."

If the original poster doesn't get the joke, here.




#sigh
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