How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
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18-02-2014, 06:51 PM
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
I would debate about the whole idea of presuppositionalism being a terrible way to prove anything, because the arguments themselves are bs aha

It's only a debate if both parties are willing to let each other's opinions change their own.
If you aren't willing to change in light of learning more about what you fight for, what the hell are you doing expecting the other party to want to change?
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18-02-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
Here's how bad it is. Notice there is presumably good evidence that isn't provided. From Matt Slick's website:

'This means that no matter how convincing the evidence or good the logic, an unbeliever cannot come to the faith because his fallen nature will distort how he perceives the truth. The only thing that can ultimately change him is regeneration. To this end, the presuppositionalist seeks to change a person's presuppositions to be in conformity with biblical revelation.

I have found that a person's presuppositions are extremely important when discussing God and the validity of Christianity. I always ask diagnostic questions to find out where a person is philosophically and presuppositionally so I might better discuss Christianity. This is a very important point to focus on because one's presuppositions will govern how one interprets facts. Please consider the following dialogue as a realistic example of how this works.

Allen: I am an atheist and evolutionist. Prove to me there is a God.
Paul: I do not think I can do that, because of your presuppositions.
Allen: Why not?
Paul: Because your presuppositions will not allow you to examine without bias the evidence that I present to you for God's existence.
Allen: That is because there is no evidence for God's existence.
Paul: See? There you go. You just confirmed what I was stating.
Allen: How so?
Paul: Your presupposition is that there is no God; therefore, no matter what I might present to you to show His existence, you must interpret it in a manner consistent with your presupposition: namely, that there is no God. If I were to have a video tape of God coming down from heaven, you'd say it was a special effect. If I had a thousand eye-witnesses saying they saw Him, you'd say it was mass-hysteria. If I had Old Testament prophecies fulfilled in the New Testament, you'd say they were forged, dated incorrectly, or not real prophecies. So, I cannot prove anything to you since your presupposition won't allow it. It is limited.
Allen: It is not limited.
Paul: Yes it is. Your presupposition cannot allow you to rightly determine God's existence from evidence -- providing that there were factual proofs of His existence. Don't you see? If I DID have incontrovertible proof, your presupposition would force you to interpret the facts consistently with your presupposition and you would not be able to see the proof.
Allen: I see your point, but I am open to being persuaded, if you can.
Paul: Then, I must ask you, what kind of evidence would you accept that would prove God's existence? I must see what your presuppositions are and work either with them or against them.
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18-02-2014, 08:56 PM
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
So, the only way I can believe in god is if I lose all reason and critical thinking and dive head long into delusion.

Well of course, that makes perfect sense.

But I also presuppose that all the other god's don't exist too, so you're saying they're all real too ?
So essentially everything that I think doesn't exist actually does and you know it does because you're presupposing it does.

And If I really don't think that you have a festering demon residing in your brain making all this shit up, means you actually do.

Gotcha

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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18-02-2014, 09:03 PM
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
I don't, I just tell them to shoo fly.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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20-02-2014, 01:09 AM
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
They have to presuppose that their god isn't lying to them, and they are unable to verify that. Done. Drinking Beverage

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20-02-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
What happens when you presuppose in everyday life ?

I presuppose that the light will turn green as I approach the intersection going the speed limit.
There will be times when this happens, but that one time that it doesn't it all it takes for you to injure someone else and yourself.

Presuppose that someone will always be there to literally catch you when you fall. Reality will be there to smack you in the face as you hit the ground.
When presuppositions don't match reality, then all you are doing is lying to yourself in order to avoid facing the facts of life.

Cause you know deep down you wanted Mrs Garrett

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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20-02-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
I don't care if they are presuppositioned or not I simply look at their arguments and refute them and if they fail to see that their arguments are flawed they can go fuck themselves.
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20-02-2014, 02:27 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2014 02:38 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
(18-02-2014 03:01 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  His fundamental assumption (at 3:05) is that "[one] must know that gawd exists in order to account for rationality".

Can you not knock huge holes in that? Think about it...

Exactly. It's the most bullshit circular argument anyone has ever proposed.
"Scripture this" and "scripture that".
1. Sye Ten wouldn't know what "scripture is, if it bit him on the ass.
2. HUMAN rationality (without scripture) wrote the damn "scripture" in the first place. Jebus didn't write scripture. (Saint) Timothy said "all scripture" was efficacious and good" (meaning ALL *holy* writing...NOT just what ended up non-unanimously VOTED into the canon texts). Sye Ten is an idiot whose argument is the DEFINITION of circular. It's not even an argument. It's a string of meaningless "non-sequitur" words.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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20-02-2014, 08:25 PM
RE: How would you argue with a presuppositionalist?
(20-02-2014 02:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-02-2014 03:01 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  His fundamental assumption (at 3:05) is that "[one] must know that gawd exists in order to account for rationality".

Can you not knock huge holes in that? Think about it...

Exactly. It's the most bullshit circular argument anyone has ever proposed.
"Scripture this" and "scripture that".
1. Sye Ten wouldn't know what "scripture is, if it bit him on the ass.
2. HUMAN rationality (without scripture) wrote the damn "scripture" in the first place. Jebus didn't write scripture. (Saint) Timothy said "all scripture" was efficacious and good" (meaning ALL *holy* writing...NOT just what ended up non-unanimously VOTED into the canon texts). Sye Ten is an idiot whose argument is the DEFINITION of circular. It's not even an argument. It's a string of meaningless "non-sequitur" words.

Aron should have stopped him right there and hammered him to the wall on it.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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