How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
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30-05-2014, 03:34 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
(30-05-2014 12:22 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  "Proof that god exists"

His arguments feel brainwashy and obnoxious to me, but they're unrefutable. Any logical argument against them relies upon logic, which requires God.

I went through that stupid video and couldn't find any argument. Then I realised that it's all laid out in a decision tree that you have to click on. I'm not even sure which one to click because I don't know what he means by "Absolute Truth".

If we can find anything written down then I would love to use it for my own thread to come up with a stronger argument that God does not exist.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-not-exist
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30-05-2014, 03:57 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
OK I tried the following:

-> Absolute Truth exists
-> I know something to be true
-> Logic exists
-> Logic does not change
-> Logic is not made of matter
-> Logic is universal
-> The Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything.

Circular reasoning. The conclusion doesn't even follow from the previous premises yet alone could be called a proof.



If you go back to the beginning and choose 'I don't know if Absolute Truth exists' you get the choice of:

'Absolutely True' and 'False'.

Where's the choice for 'True' ?


The whole site relies on ambiguity and limiting people's available options.
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30-05-2014, 04:18 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
The proof that Sye exists is that without humor we wouldn't be able to laugh at him.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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31-05-2014, 05:03 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
Ok, I just watched his debate with Seth and DPRJones, and he has successfully trapped me. There is no way out of his arguments. Arguing against his arguments is self contradictory. The one question that absolutely defeats atheism is "Do you believe in absolute truth?". If you answer no or don't know, you've contradicted yourself. If you answer yes, your position requires God. If you don't care, he sends you to Disney's website.

Truth seeker.
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31-05-2014, 05:27 AM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2014 05:31 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
(31-05-2014 05:03 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  The one question that absolutely defeats atheism is "Do you believe in absolute truth?". If you answer no or don't know, you've contradicted yourself. If you answer yes, your position requires God. If you don't care, he sends you to Disney's website.

The question is flawed and conclusions do not follow on from any of the presented choices.

Rule of thumb. If you are offered a single question with two impossible alternatives then you have three strategies:
  • Question the question
  • Question whether there are more alternatives
  • Question the conclusions drawn from the presented choices

In almost all cases, including the one above, you will find the flaw in the argument, most often deliberately hidden by ambiguities with the choice of words.

So let's do a dry run:

"Do you believe in absolute truth?"

Question the question
  • What is meant by absolute truth?
  • Do I believe in absolute truth of what?
  • How is absolute truth different from normal truth?
  • Does absolute truth refer to what we can perceive, think and belief or what exists regardless of our own existence?
  • Is "absolute truth" a synonym for 'reality'?


Question the choices
  • If I answer that I don't believe in absolute truth then why is this a contradiction when I didn't say that I absolutely did not believe in absolute truth?
  • Is it possible to not be sure?
  • If I answer yes then why does my belief mean that God exists?
  • Surely if God exists then it is not dependent upon my belief?

Diddo, you really need to start practising these skills otherwise you will be easy pickings for any intellectual charlatan such as Sye Ten Bruggencate to come along and start playing disingenuous word games.

Ask yourself this:

How come you are so ready to believe the theist arguments but haven't ever mentioned that the same arguments against the existence of God are just as hard to refute, if not more so?

Try refuting those instead.
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31-05-2014, 05:34 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
(31-05-2014 05:27 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Ask yourself this:

How come you are so ready to believe the theist arguments but haven't ever mentioned that the same arguments against the existence of God are just as hard to refute, if not more so?

Try refuting those instead.

You only seem to be able to offer appeal to emotion arguments. Apologists' arguments tend to be logic based.

Truth seeker.
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31-05-2014, 05:36 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
(31-05-2014 05:34 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 05:27 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Ask yourself this:

How come you are so ready to believe the theist arguments but haven't ever mentioned that the same arguments against the existence of God are just as hard to refute, if not more so?

Try refuting those instead.

You only seem to be able to offer appeal to emotion arguments. Apologists' arguments tend to be logic based.

Absolute bollocks.

Point to one single instance where I offered an appeal to emotion.
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31-05-2014, 05:46 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
(31-05-2014 05:03 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Ok, I just watched his debate with Seth and DPRJones, and he has successfully trapped me. There is no way out of his arguments. Arguing against his arguments is self contradictory. The one question that absolutely defeats atheism is "Do you believe in absolute truth?". If you answer no or don't know, you've contradicted yourself. If you answer yes, your position requires God. If you don't care, he sends you to Disney's website.

1. How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
Dismiss and ignore them. They're a total pile of stinking crap.
2. As Dr. Carroll pointed out in his debate with WLC, many things can be proven to be "logically true", yet are not part of reality. Logic is necessary, but not sufficient. That means, you need EVIDENCE. Reality is not necessarily intuitive.
3. One possible answer to "Do you believe in absolute truth ?" is to examine the words. What do those words mean, and what is the process ? There is a *judgement* being made, both about the process and the outcome of that judgement process. Is that a reasonable judgement ? What is/are the mental/physical PROCESS(ES) by which that goes on. It that PROCESS *perfect* ? What would that even mean ? etc etc etc
4. Stop looking at fat old men as the "holders of *truth* who know more than YOU. You have a good brain. You are smarter they they are.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-05-2014, 05:47 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
(31-05-2014 05:36 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 05:34 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  You only seem to be able to offer appeal to emotion arguments. Apologists' arguments tend to be logic based.

Absolute bollocks.

Point to one single instance where I offered an appeal to emotion.

I don't fucking know anymore. My brain has disintegrated. Nothing makes sense to me anymore, so the only thing my brain cares about in an argument is forcefulness. Sye is very forceful and leaves me no way out. He doesn't even allow me to say "I don't know".

Truth seeker.
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31-05-2014, 05:51 AM
RE: How would you deal with Sye Ten Bruggencate's arguments?
(31-05-2014 05:46 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  4. Stop looking at fat old men as the "holders of *truth* who know more than YOU. You have a good brain. You are smarter they they are.

(citation needed)

I certainly don't think I have any intellegence whatsoever. I'm a pathetic piece of shit. I only leave my house about once a week. I'm on my computer 95% of the time I'm awake. I've pretty much been dead for 2 years.

Truth seeker.
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