How would you deal with this argument?
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22-05-2014, 04:48 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
(21-05-2014 09:46 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Without God, I have no reason to think that my brain can be trusted at all. Therefore, I can't use thought to disprove God. (Sort of like Eric Hovind's "Without God, ya can't know anything". His wording is quite poor though, since it leaves several loopholes.)

I believe Plantinga is the source of this particular flawed argument, that is the version Hovind uses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionar...naturalism

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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22-05-2014, 05:06 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
(21-05-2014 10:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-05-2014 09:59 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  That argument you made comes from your brain. You've contradicted yourself.

No, dildo, we have science. Science is the way to make sure we're not fooling ourselves.

Dildo...*snickers*

I'm so mature

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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22-05-2014, 05:15 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
First off, your brain is you. They aren't separate entities. The only way you are aware of the world is because you are a brain capable of being aware.

The awareness we have about the world is how we navigate through it. Its only when we see things that aren't there or hear voices that aren't real that we have a problem.

When you let something imaginary, like the idea of a god, influence your actions, then you are ignoring reality in favor of a mental fantasy. This will only lead to more problems.

The next time you wake up, look around the room and confirm that everything is around you in exactly the way your brain is telling you it is. Confirm your heart beat, every aspect of your own body, the walls, every object in the room.

If you see tiny pink elephants dancing on the ceiling, that is when you shouldn't trust what you are seeing. We know when something isn't right. We know that if we begin to see things that are abnormal its probably because something has gone wrong with our brains. That's why we confirm what we observe with evidence.

God currently falls into that imaginary category that we can't confirm with evidence. That's why we shouldn't believe its anything except an imaginary delusion of the mind.

In summation, we confirm what we observe with evidence about the observation. We can also construct models that have the abilty to make very useful predictions about the things we observe. If the evidence is faulty, then the model will not make useful and accurate predictions.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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22-05-2014, 06:56 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
(21-05-2014 09:56 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(21-05-2014 09:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Your brain learns. That's how you *learn* you can trust it. You learn.
Jebus don't "learn" ya nuthin. Sleepy

Why should I "trust" what I've "learned"? If I could completely trust myself, I would have to be omniscient and infallable.

I never said you can "completely trust yourself". Pick up a Psych text and read about how people learn, how babies learn, and then as Chas said learn about what science says about what humans have discovered about what they can trust their senses to tell them and what has been discovered to need other tools to understand.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-05-2014, 07:15 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
(22-05-2014 04:13 AM)Charis Wrote:  dildo, I don't trust your brain.

Charis, I trust your dildo.


Tongue

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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22-05-2014, 07:50 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
(21-05-2014 10:45 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  In addition to that I believe that the universe is very likely completely deterministic and as such my free will is in a sense a delusion.

Then there's not much fucking point in you whining about the rest of the world not buying into your batshit-crazy veganist religion, is there, moron.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-05-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
(21-05-2014 09:46 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Without God, I have no reason to think that my brain can be trusted at all. Therefore, I can't use thought to disprove God. (Sort of like Eric Hovind's "Without God, ya can't know anything". His wording is quite poor though, since it leaves several loopholes.)

It is circular and used to keep believers believing, a trick, so to speak.
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22-05-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
(21-05-2014 09:46 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Without God, I have no reason to think that my brain can be trusted at all.

Why? How does this follow?

Quote: Therefore, I can't use thought to disprove God. (Sort of like Eric Hovind's "Without God, ya can't know anything". His wording is quite poor though, since it leaves several loopholes.)

You have not yet established your initial principal. Why can't you trust your brain? What bearing does the existence of God have on the functioning of your brain?
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22-05-2014, 08:46 AM
RE: How would you deal with this argument?
(21-05-2014 10:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-05-2014 09:46 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Without God, I have no reason to think that my brain can be trusted at all. Therefore, I can't use thought to disprove God. (Sort of like Eric Hovind's "Without God, ya can't know anything". His wording is quite poor though, since it leaves several loopholes.)

I wouldn't. It's a silly argument. Pointless, presuppositional, presumptuous, and pathetic.
Also add in pretentious.

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22-05-2014, 09:13 AM
How would you deal with this argument?
(21-05-2014 10:05 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(21-05-2014 10:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, dildo, we have science. Science is the way to make sure we're not fooling ourselves.

Science is just as fallable and untrustworthy as your brain.

That's hilarious, coming from someone who presented an argument from a human mind without showing its efficacy, and now rejects any reasoning that shows the argument to be false, by consensus of minds, not just that person's own mind.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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