How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
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24-08-2012, 02:27 PM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
(24-08-2012 05:48 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 06:52 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  How do I do it if I am just doing it regardless?

Well since you already put up some situation without a purpose and realism.. I'll just go ahead and assume there are no limits to my presumed government control.

I would take action and destroy all existing tobacco crops. Then take any bit of existing tobacco and melt it in a volcano that is relatively isolated, probably in the pacific ocean. It would be a relentless attack to destroy every single genetic strand of tobacco on Earth.

As for Alcohol... that is a tricky one. It requires a never ending task force. First off I would confiscate all existing alcohol and probably dump it into a volcano adjacent to the tobacco one. That would not be enough, because I would still have to prevent it from being made. I would destroy any documents written or on the internet that exist about how to make alcohol. At that point, I would monitor the population, and if anybody learned how to create alcohol they will suffer a fierce death. That goes as well for any animals I find that are giving people ideas, that's right, I'm talking about you monkey's and Elephants. I find any of those suckers fermenting berries and they'll be poached. All parts of the animals will be given to the people for free, of course!

Now I see your original post said practical... Even though nothing about the idea is practical; if you want to effectively and perfectly eradicate their use? I see very few other options.

I do have a plan B... Wanna know Plan B?

Do you want it!?

It's make it a mandate that all Alcohol sold in the USA has strong poison dosage that kills anyone who drinks a tiny bit. As well as add poison to all US Tobacco fields. If tobacco is attempted to be smuggled in, it must be poisoned or the sale is punishable by death.

I find embarrasment to be quite effective. If you send out the DEA with cameras to record videos of drunks being so piss drunk that they do stupid shit and even some of the worst offenders shitting themselves, then put it on tv and make it mandatory for kids in school to watch it alcohol would disappear within a generation or 2. I never got started with those habits because I had an uncle that used to get piss drunk all the time. He acted like a child, farting in public and laughing and other shit that lost my respect. I do drink, but I keep it to one at a time usually. I never smoked anything, because my grandfather was a chain smoker. He would sit there and tell me about how if smoking was so bad, why isn't he dead. He died a real painful death due to his habits only about a year and a half ago. I have always learned by watching. Many kids do as well. We control what they think when they see stuff like that and they will make the right choices.

You are tlaking about a geneation of kids that do stupid stuff just to see how many hits they can get on youtube. They would laugh all the way through the movie then go home and get stoned anyway. Most kids feel invinsible and have the "that shit won't happen to me" attitude.
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24-08-2012, 03:03 PM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
Sorry, I know this is gonna irk some of my more philanthropic peers, but I can't honestly say I care about what people do with their lives. When other lives are affected, it sucks, but when a person wants to drown themself in alcohol or fry their bodies with cigarettes, I really can't say that I care. People are stupid. If someone wants to devote their lives to destroying themselves, it's not my concern.

The only thing that pisses me off is when I have to scrape a 3-year-old's frontal lobe off of the pavement because some jackass wanted to get wasted with his friends on a holiday weekend.

Then again, all things considered, I can't help but feel that she was lucky to have been spared a full 80+ years in this world.

...But I'm rambling. Ignore me Undecided

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24-08-2012, 07:34 PM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
(24-08-2012 05:51 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(24-08-2012 05:48 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  put it on tv and make it mandatory for kids in school to watch it alcohol would disappear within a generation or 2.

Given a choice between alcohol and people who think like you... I wouldn't ban alcohol.
Like it or not, alcohol is a hard drug. It's potent, mild-altering, addictive mentally and physically, relatively toxic (a shot of alcohol into vein may kill you) and has severe health effects. Plus the hangovers are terrible.
It just happens to be a hard drug that our culture embraces, sorry for the bad pun, a Ginn out of bottle that nobody will ever get back.
What Birdguy actually proposes should be preferable to you, compared to short-sighted legal harrasment like prohibition. So alcohol would lose its cultural charm, glamor and mojo, so what? Nobody is taking it away from anyone.
Actually, in the times of Roman empire they used to get slaves drunk and then show them off to youths as a discouraging example, so this is not a new idea.

I personally dislike the idiotic consumer culture, I mean boasting with how much alcohol you can consume. Twenty beers or more, so that you turn one bottoms up and go immediately to piss, like a flow-heater? Or liters of hard liquor, gargled in together with bitten down pieces of a glass? (I heard it can be puked out relatively safely)
What you puke out doesn't count, only the one direction of flow counts. Puking is manly too, apparently and it's like having a bit of rest during a long party.

There are two ways drugs may be made safe. Either make them unfashionable or make them sacred. And our society isn't good at keeping things sacred.
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25-08-2012, 01:10 AM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
I don't believe you could successfully eradicate cigarettes/tobacco and alcohol. We tried with Prohibition and failed miserably, I would recommend the documentary called prohibition, its a three part series but excellent. An argument could be made that it was the culture and we have come far since then and perhaps now we could make it happen, but at this time it seems unrealistic. There are small towns that still practice prohibition but 5 miles down the road is a bar, so needless to say that has been reversed permanently. Alcohol has actually shown to give you healthy attributes in moderation ( http://nutrition.about.com/od/hydrationw...rition.htm ) my father who has recently had 6 bypass surgery drinks one beer a day to help with clots. There really is no healthy explanation for tobacco I think to remove it, it would be a slow and costly process because you would be up against the majority of citizens as well as very wealthy influential lobbying groups. We all make unhealthy choices even knowing the consequences. In 2009 37.9% of substance abuse cases were drug related only but 37.2 was drugs and alcohol, then the remaining 23.5 was just alcohol (this does not add up to 100% due to a % being unreported) (http://www.samhsa.gov/data/ ). So it is a problem but to even begin this radical proposition there would have to be a major overhaul of the substance abuse system and many many dedicated people to the cause. I still don't think you could make it illegal because I believe and correct me if I am wrong that you would need to eradicate the majority of the addiction the society has created first. There will always be things like eating too much, eating the wrong things, normally stuff that affects an individual. The real problem to focus on would be to help make more psychiatric facilities available to Men, Women, and Teens, for them to recover that would actually be a much more pro-active approach, but just my 2 cents.

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25-08-2012, 01:20 AM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
(24-08-2012 03:03 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Sorry, I know this is gonna irk some of my more philanthropic peers, but I can't honestly say I care about what people do with their lives. When other lives are affected, it sucks, but when a person wants to drown themself in alcohol or fry their bodies with cigarettes, I really can't say that I care. People are stupid. If someone wants to devote their lives to destroying themselves, it's not my concern.

The only thing that pisses me off is when I have to scrape a 3-year-old's frontal lobe off of the pavement because some jackass wanted to get wasted with his friends on a holiday weekend.

Then again, all things considered, I can't help but feel that she was lucky to have been spared a full 80+ years in this world.

...But I'm rambling. Ignore me Undecided

I think you make a excellent point and it sounds as though you have had personal experience with victims of individuals making bad choices resulting in tragedy for the innocent. On the flip side I too have had some experience with that side which is awful but have found that although we know the problem most of the time addiction we ignore trying to treat them before it comes to what you described. I have seen so many in need and willing to get help but are either refused because no insurance so when they are sober we send them away (probably for them to repeat the next night) or we are unable to find a facility for them due to lack of space and facilities in the area. I think you make a excellent point and a strong statement, the question is how to minimize and optimistically speaking maybe even eradicate this behavior from our society (I'm speaking of drinking and driving).

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25-08-2012, 11:19 AM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
(24-08-2012 07:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(24-08-2012 05:51 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  Given a choice between alcohol and people who think like you... I wouldn't ban alcohol.
Like it or not, alcohol is a hard drug. It's potent, mild-altering, addictive mentally and physically, relatively toxic (a shot of alcohol into vein may kill you) and has severe health effects. Plus the hangovers are terrible.
It just happens to be a hard drug that our culture embraces, sorry for the bad pun, a Ginn out of bottle that nobody will ever get back.
What Birdguy actually proposes should be preferable to you, compared to short-sighted legal harrasment like prohibition. So alcohol would lose its cultural charm, glamor and mojo, so what? Nobody is taking it away from anyone.
Actually, in the times of Roman empire they used to get slaves drunk and then show them off to youths as a discouraging example, so this is not a new idea.

I personally dislike the idiotic consumer culture, I mean boasting with how much alcohol you can consume. Twenty beers or more, so that you turn one bottoms up and go immediately to piss, like a flow-heater? Or liters of hard liquor, gargled in together with bitten down pieces of a glass? (I heard it can be puked out relatively safely)
What you puke out doesn't count, only the one direction of flow counts. Puking is manly too, apparently and it's like having a bit of rest during a long party.

There are two ways drugs may be made safe. Either make them unfashionable or make them sacred. And our society isn't good at keeping things sacred.

It also has health benefits. It's been something I've seen you or others ignore about alcohol in this thread.

Of course it can be a dangerous substance, but it isn't everywhere in the world in large numbers. All those societal aspects you mention are more to do with societal issues like people binge drinking.

If you think his idea would make it not cool, you must of never attended a DARE program. Those impact a lot of kids to want to try drugs. They do have more awareness of the danger but it's the type of videos and information that is meant to sway people away.

Making things sacred or restricted are ways to make things more dangerous. That's evident by horrible state of dealing with alcohol in the US as well as other drug consumption.

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25-08-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
(25-08-2012 11:19 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(24-08-2012 07:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Like it or not, alcohol is a hard drug. It's potent, mild-altering, addictive mentally and physically, relatively toxic (a shot of alcohol into vein may kill you) and has severe health effects. Plus the hangovers are terrible.
It just happens to be a hard drug that our culture embraces, sorry for the bad pun, a Ginn out of bottle that nobody will ever get back.
What Birdguy actually proposes should be preferable to you, compared to short-sighted legal harrasment like prohibition. So alcohol would lose its cultural charm, glamor and mojo, so what? Nobody is taking it away from anyone.
Actually, in the times of Roman empire they used to get slaves drunk and then show them off to youths as a discouraging example, so this is not a new idea.

I personally dislike the idiotic consumer culture, I mean boasting with how much alcohol you can consume. Twenty beers or more, so that you turn one bottoms up and go immediately to piss, like a flow-heater? Or liters of hard liquor, gargled in together with bitten down pieces of a glass? (I heard it can be puked out relatively safely)
What you puke out doesn't count, only the one direction of flow counts. Puking is manly too, apparently and it's like having a bit of rest during a long party.

There are two ways drugs may be made safe. Either make them unfashionable or make them sacred. And our society isn't good at keeping things sacred.

It also has health benefits. It's been something I've seen you or others ignore about alcohol in this thread.

Of course it can be a dangerous substance, but it isn't everywhere in the world in large numbers. All those societal aspects you mention are more to do with societal issues like people binge drinking.

If you think his idea would make it not cool, you must of never attended a DARE program. Those impact a lot of kids to want to try drugs. They do have more awareness of the danger but it's the type of videos and information that is meant to sway people away.

Making things sacred or restricted are ways to make things more dangerous. That's evident by horrible state of dealing with alcohol in the US as well as other drug consumption.

Very True, in a earlier post I mentioned my father drinks a beer a day to help with clots after a 6 bypass surgery. In societies where the drinking age is lower there is much less of a problem with alcoholism statistically, I watched a Documentry a long time ago about it but now I can't remember what it was called, I think the main country it talked about was in Europe though.

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25-08-2012, 11:39 AM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
Could everyone please learn the difference between use and abuse?

Use:

[Image: A_glass_of_wine_by_FergieFoto.jpg]

Abuse:

[Image: drunk_girls_640_00.jpg]

And stop judging one group because of the other?

Would that be possible?

A little less narrow-mindedness?

Please?
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25-08-2012, 04:13 PM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
(25-08-2012 11:39 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  Could everyone please learn the difference between use and abuse?

Use:

[Image: A_glass_of_wine_by_FergieFoto.jpg]

Abuse:

[Image: drunk_girls_640_00.jpg]

And stop judging one group because of the other?

Would that be possible?

A little less narrow-mindedness?

Please?

I am sorry I assumed the question was because of the abuse not the use, so I tried to focus my remarks on handling addiction, however with tobacco since there is no positive affect and actually has a negative effect on your body as soon as you inhale, along with being highly addictive, I could see wanting to try to eradicate that. I don't think that would be judging people but more the substance or at least my judgment on tobacco was reserved for tobacco not the people who use it. I don't know can you not abuse tobacco? Since it in no way has positive attributes and negatively affects your health? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious. With alcohol in moderation it won't hurt you and can be good for you. But other things like cocaine or meth I would consider that abuse right away because it only produces negative. With Marijuana though it’s arguable that it doesn't have any negative effects, so that would be a substance that I would think could be used not abused (like don't drive after). Does that make sense? What do you think?

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25-08-2012, 04:21 PM
RE: How would you successfully eradicate the use of alcohol and cigarettes?
(25-08-2012 04:13 PM)Alice Wrote:  I am sorry I assumed the question was because of the abuse not the use, so I tried to focus my remarks on handling addiction, however with tobacco since there is no positive affect and actually has a negative effect on your body as soon as you inhale, along with being highly addictive, I could see wanting to try to eradicate that.

Alice, I wasn't have a pop at you (well, you alone). It is the whole idea that "because bad things happen with a substance, we should ban it".

Well, no.

This might be a revelation for some, but non-smokers and non-drinkers die every day. This isn't an issue of curtailing immortality. We all die. I've spent enough time in "retirement homes" visiting elderly friends and family to know that I'd be very happy to never end up there.

We have one life and it is short. We can be miserable and make that life ever so slightly less short. Or we can have fun and die a little sooner. I am going to go down kicking and screaming if some inconsiderate fucks try to make life a little more miserable, so that I get a better chance of living in a home, where attendants have to wipe my arse when I use the toilet (and that the "toilet" wasn't actually my bed).
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