Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
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02-07-2016, 10:09 PM
Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
Has anyone read anything else on this science? I look at this image that they used and am I wrong in thinking they are blaming the injection wells of central US for all of these increases in both Americas? Because that's kind of what I feel it's stating. Or are they saying that the toxic injection wells are being heavily used all throughout both continents? I get that Oklahoma is a hot spot of this issue and the risks but I wouldn't think it would effect anything outside of Oklahoma. Maybe I read too much into it.

Still, it's a huge issue here and as we are close to the New Madras fault I am not certain it couldn't trigger something there that could be devastating. I don't know much about seismic science so if someone here does, would you elaborate a bit, please?


http://secondnexus.com/ecology-and-susta...cdccd935b9

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03-07-2016, 01:32 AM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
(02-07-2016 10:09 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Has anyone read anything else on this science? I look at this image that they used and am I wrong in thinking they are blaming the injection wells of central US for all of these increases in both Americas? Because that's kind of what I feel it's stating. Or are they saying that the toxic injection wells are being heavily used all throughout both continents? I get that Oklahoma is a hot spot of this issue and the risks but I wouldn't think it would effect anything outside of Oklahoma. Maybe I read too much into it.

Still, it's a huge issue here and as we are close to the New Madras fault I am not certain it couldn't trigger something there that could be devastating. I don't know much about seismic science so if someone here does, would you elaborate a bit, please?


http://secondnexus.com/ecology-and-susta...cdccd935b9

[Image: Featured.jpg]

From what I understand, the injection causes the faults to essentially slip, causing earthquakes but according to the USGS, only a small fraction of these wells could do something like that.

USGS also released a kind of estimate on the areas where these have happened and could happen.

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03-07-2016, 06:50 AM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
Not surprising at all...

We as a species have a long history of using technology to our folly...........

Just off the top of my head -- drinking water from bottles lined with uranium, (it "energized" the water) and using powdered lead as a sugar substitute -- come to mind..

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03-07-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
Then let's keep the faults greased up so they keep moving regularly rather than letting pressure build up. Hooray for injection wells, turning potentially catastrophic earthquakes into a series of manageable tremors.

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03-07-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
(03-07-2016 06:58 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Then let's keep the faults greased up so they keep moving regularly rather than letting pressure build up. Hooray for injection wells, turning potentially catastrophic earthquakes into a series of manageable tremors.

Sorta like managed fire breaks, eh???

Never know -- it might work.....


But, wouldn't it stay just as greased up, if we left the oil where it is???


heh

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03-07-2016, 07:07 AM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
(03-07-2016 07:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 06:58 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Then let's keep the faults greased up so they keep moving regularly rather than letting pressure build up. Hooray for injection wells, turning potentially catastrophic earthquakes into a series of manageable tremors.

Sorta like managed fire breaks, eh???

Never know -- it might work.....


But, wouldn't it stay just as greased up, if we left the oil where it is???


heh

Yeah but we need the oil. The greedy complainers show about as much potential to slow down with their consumption as the so called greedy corporations do to slow down with their production. Like drug addicts blaming the problems of the world on drug dealers. Hippocrates.

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03-07-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
(03-07-2016 01:32 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(02-07-2016 10:09 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Has anyone read anything else on this science? I look at this image that they used and am I wrong in thinking they are blaming the injection wells of central US for all of these increases in both Americas? Because that's kind of what I feel it's stating. Or are they saying that the toxic injection wells are being heavily used all throughout both continents? I get that Oklahoma is a hot spot of this issue and the risks but I wouldn't think it would effect anything outside of Oklahoma. Maybe I read too much into it.

Still, it's a huge issue here and as we are close to the New Madras fault I am not certain it couldn't trigger something there that could be devastating. I don't know much about seismic science so if someone here does, would you elaborate a bit, please?


http://secondnexus.com/ecology-and-susta...cdccd935b9

[Image: Featured.jpg]

From what I understand, the injection causes the faults to essentially slip, causing earthquakes but according to the USGS, only a small fraction of these wells could do something like that.

USGS also released a kind of estimate on the areas where these have happened and could happen.

Yeah, the article is not really reporting that accurately. Sad

It seems to me that if the salt toxic waste water comes up with the oil then why don't they just put it back in the same spot instead of forcing it into a place that is causing issues. Or even put it in the last well they left after tapping. There are a shit ton of dry wells. Can't they just put it back in them?

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03-07-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
(02-07-2016 10:09 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Has anyone read anything else on this science? I look at this image that they used and am I wrong in thinking they are blaming the injection wells of central US for all of these increases in both Americas? Because that's kind of what I feel it's stating. Or are they saying that the toxic injection wells are being heavily used all throughout both continents? I get that Oklahoma is a hot spot of this issue and the risks but I wouldn't think it would effect anything outside of Oklahoma. Maybe I read too much into it.

Still, it's a huge issue here and as we are close to the New Madras fault I am not certain it couldn't trigger something there that could be devastating. I don't know much about seismic science so if someone here does, would you elaborate a bit, please?


http://secondnexus.com/ecology-and-susta...cdccd935b9

[Image: Featured.jpg]

That's a load of click-bait and pop-science. Note how the graphic neatly outlines the plate boundaries rather than injection sites.

Here's a paper that might explain it better.

The highlights:

- Injection wells (fracking and waste water disposal) don't cause eathquakes. It simply doesn't have the energy. You need a hydrogen bomb for that sort of power.

- Injection wells can allow existing stress to be released through a variety of mechanisms.

- In areas of low tectonic activity these stresses are typically small, resulting in low magnitude quakes that most people won't even notice.

- In seismically active areas, the stresses are more significant and are a cause for concern.

In seismically active areas, the real problem isn't the eathquakes that are being produced. As noted, that's just liberating energy that could build to more catastrophic levels. The problem is that the stress released doesn't simply go away. Much of it is redistrbuted to other faults in the system. Since these faults probably don't have injection wells influencing them the stresses can build up dangerously in areas where you might not otherwise expect them.

None of this is really new. There were proposals back in the '80s to reduce damaging quakes using fluid injection directly into the fault to trigger many small quakes rather than one large one. It was discovered because oil companies had done it unintentionally and produced those results. It was rejected because you're really just shuffling the energy around and it's prohibitively expensive/downright impossible to target all but the shallowest faults.

The only real change is that the increased use by industry has brought his to the public's attention. What's needed is some balanced regulations preventing companies from drilling injection wells that are too large or too close to major faults.

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03-07-2016, 01:32 PM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
(03-07-2016 01:27 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(02-07-2016 10:09 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Has anyone read anything else on this science? I look at this image that they used and am I wrong in thinking they are blaming the injection wells of central US for all of these increases in both Americas? Because that's kind of what I feel it's stating. Or are they saying that the toxic injection wells are being heavily used all throughout both continents? I get that Oklahoma is a hot spot of this issue and the risks but I wouldn't think it would effect anything outside of Oklahoma. Maybe I read too much into it.

Still, it's a huge issue here and as we are close to the New Madras fault I am not certain it couldn't trigger something there that could be devastating. I don't know much about seismic science so if someone here does, would you elaborate a bit, please?


http://secondnexus.com/ecology-and-susta...cdccd935b9

[Image: Featured.jpg]

That's a load of click-bait and pop-science. Note how the graphic neatly outlines the plate boundaries rather than injection sites.

Here's a paper that might explain it better.

The highlights:

- Injection wells (fracking and waste water disposal) don't cause eathquakes. It simply doesn't have the energy. You need a hydrogen bomb for that sort of power.

- Injection wells can allow existing stress to be released through a variety of mechanisms.

- In areas of low tectonic activity these stresses are typically small, resulting in low magnitude quakes that most people won't even notice.

- In seismically active areas, the stresses are more significant and are a cause for concern.

In seismically active areas, the real problem isn't the eathquakes that are being produced. As noted, that's just liberating energy that could build to more catastrophic levels. The problem is that the stress released doesn't simply go away. Much of it is redistrbuted to other faults in the system. Since these faults probably don't have injection wells influencing them the stresses can build up dangerously in areas where you might not otherwise expect them.

None of this is really new. There were proposals back in the '80s to reduce damaging quakes using fluid injection directly into the fault to trigger many small quakes rather than one large one. It was discovered because oil companies had done it unintentionally and produced those results. It was rejected because you're really just shuffling the energy around and it's prohibitively expensive/downright impossible to target all but the shallowest faults.

The only real change is that the increased use by industry has brought his to the public's attention. What's needed is some balanced regulations preventing companies from drilling injection wells that are too large or too close to major faults.

Thanks, that was very helpful! Smile

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03-07-2016, 01:36 PM
RE: Human Induced Earthquakes, Toxic Injection Wells
Sarcasm aside, am I the only one who actually wants more earthquakes?

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