Human Rights Watch recommend European Commission to take action against Poland.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-02-2017, 03:13 AM
Human Rights Watch recommend European Commission to take action against Poland.
Amnesty International, The International Federation for Human Rights, Human Rights Watch, the Open Society European Policy Institute, and Reporters Without Borders thinks that European Commission should take action against Poland in accordance with Article 7 of EU treaty, to prevent further backsliding.

More info could be found here:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/02/16/eu-p...s-rule-law
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/02/16/open...ion-poland
Or is someone know Polish or is willing to use translator:
http://krytykapolityczna.pl/swiat/ue/pis...a-sankcje/
https://amnesty.org.pl/polski-rzad-podwa...rzadnosci/

I think it would be good if EU organs were to step in but knowing who is in power now in Poland I doubt that it will result in something more than cries of persecution. It's not like earlier recommendations were heeded. Still some action is necessary, EU don't need authoritarian state in it's borders and some of gov actions could be described as fascist rather than authoritarian.

So, what are your thoughts?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
19-02-2017, 04:35 AM
RE: Human Rights Watch recommend European Commission to take action against Poland.
(19-02-2017 03:13 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I think it would be good if EU organs were to step in but knowing who is in power now in Poland I doubt that it will result in something more than cries of persecution.

While my gut reaction is that this government has to be called out for everything it has done and plans on doing, you're obviously right that this would serve as a rallying call for an even larger portion of the population to fall in line with the PIS.

We actually had the same when the EU sanctioned us in the early 2000s. When we had our rightwing government and they were playing the persecution card. It suddenly gained in popularity.

Same with Hungary. What Orban does shouldn't go unchallenged, but on the other hand one may not forget populous sentiments. Most people are easily convinced to be victimized when they're exposed to the right kind of propaganda.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like abaris's post
19-02-2017, 05:39 AM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2017 05:48 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Human Rights Watch recommend European Commission to take action against Poland.
(19-02-2017 04:35 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(19-02-2017 03:13 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I think it would be good if EU organs were to step in but knowing who is in power now in Poland I doubt that it will result in something more than cries of persecution.

While my gut reaction is that this government has to be called out for everything it has done and plans on doing, you're obviously right that this would serve as a rallying call for an even larger portion of the population to fall in line with the PIS.

We actually had the same when the EU sanctioned us in the early 2000s. When we had our rightwing government and they were playing the persecution card. It suddenly gained in popularity.

Same with Hungary. What Orban does shouldn't go unchallenged, but on the other hand one may not forget populous sentiments. Most people are easily convinced to be victimized when they're exposed to the right kind of propaganda.

People in Poland have right to feel maybe not victimized but wronged. Not by the EU though, culprits are to be found in their own country. Transformation sucked and it's not like left cared about people who didn't "win" back then; it was only matter of time for right to step in and frame conflict in national terms, rather than class one when it is clear that it is not foreigners to blame.

That aside I'm afraid that there isn't much that EU can do for country I live in - no reaction obviously won't help and some kind of sanction almost certainly will not matter to L&J, as being "persecuted" is just another thing showing that they're right. Only real hope come from population at large but I doubt that people will rise to do something as there is no democratic tradition. Even praised "Solidarity" fought more for welfare, not liberty I think.

In short Poland is fucked. Or maybe not fucked but destined to be shithole country with population always looking for a fault with others and happily listening to demagogues promising "rising from knees". ETA: Or I'm wrong and this is just the phase. Who knows? I don't expect bright future though.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-02-2017, 05:47 AM
RE: Human Rights Watch recommend European Commission to take action against Poland.
(19-02-2017 05:39 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  In short Poland is fucked. Or maybe not fucked but destined to be shithole country with population always looking for a fault with others and happily listening to demagogues promising "rising from knees".

You seem to have a pretty strong civil resistance, going by all the protests taking place. I guess, the main problem is rural vs urban areas. I guess the PIS is much stronger in rural regions than it is in the large cities.

Another problem we don't have is the church largely taking the side of PIS. They're much more conservative than our clerics who are usually on the right side of social issues or at least not making a fuzz over what they don't agree with. They also refrain from meddling in politics.

I tend to think, change can only come from within. Any outside pressure will only enforce the ruling party. And they're not invulnerable. Them rolling back on the anti abortion bill after the women's protest show that they're afraid to lose popular support.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-02-2017, 05:59 AM
RE: Human Rights Watch recommend European Commission to take action against Poland.
(19-02-2017 05:47 AM)abaris Wrote:  You seem to have a pretty strong civil resistance, going by all the protests taking place. I guess, the main problem is rural vs urban areas. I guess the PIS is much stronger in rural regions than it is in the large cities.

This civil resistance is for specific cases like anti abortion bill I think, when it comes to other aspects of L&J rule it's not so strong I think.

And if I remember correctly you're right in regard to rural vs city issue.

Quote:Another problem we don't have is the church largely taking the side of PIS. They're much more conservative than our clerics who are usually on the right side of social issues or at least not making a fuzz over what they don't agree with. They also refrain from meddling in politics.

Problem is much bigger than that as it is politicians who think that sucking up to clergy is necessary. Even leftist SLD did it.

So while church support is troubling (even if don't matter as much as people think) it's just a part of much larger issue.

Quote:I tend to think, change can only come from within. Any outside pressure will only enforce the ruling party. And they're not invulnerable. Them rolling back on the anti abortion bill after the women's protest show that they're afraid to lose popular support.

They aren't invulnerable and they can be made to fold but constant vigilance is needed. Anti abortion bill was rejected, but now L&J returned morning after pill to being on prescription and made another bill "supporting" parents of disabled children so that they won't choose abortion but rather birth. It's just L&J taking away freedom step by step rather than at once, especially when one remember that getting abortion in Poland is far from thanks to "compromise".

There are also issued about courts, school, immigrants, anti-terrorist law I mentioned in OP. L&J can be made to fold but they backing on one scheme means nothing when they have more which wouldn't be opposed.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-02-2017, 01:49 AM
RE: Human Rights Watch recommend European Commission to take action against Poland.
In related news:

Poland doesn't acknowledge that it did something wrong, foreign minister Waszczykowski during his talk with vice-president of European Commission Frans Timmermans asked UE to allow Poland to respect it's own constitution in response to Timmermans statement about troubles with Constitutional Court.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/worl...28858.html
http://www.thenews.pl/1/2/Artykul/294372...nst-Poland

In unrelated news - if Law and Justice new proposed laws will pass courts in Poland will lose independence.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-02-2017, 02:32 AM
RE: Human Rights Watch recommend European Commission to take action against Poland.
Guardian take on Polish courts problems.

Things aren't looking good.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: