Human Worth
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07-04-2012, 06:04 AM
RE: Human Worth
Anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals are not fact. Your killing story is great, except for the fact that it has no relationship with fact whatsoever. So perhaps before you call something that is demonstrably correct total bullshit, you should first, if I may be so bold, acquaint yourself with the facts.

You know what, I was going to respond to your entire post, but there's no fucking point. You dismiss Buber? Just so you can earn some cheap points? And you demonstrate your bigotry in the process! Whatever, man. I assumed that you were someone capable of rational conversation. You're not, you fucking fly by night troll. Enjoy your liberal use of the word bullshit you fucking hypocrite. "Wank, wank, wank, whine, whine, whine, someone told my my shit was stupid and here I am saying everything Matt wrote is bullshit." For real, man, fuck you. You PM me, you invite me to this thread, just so, what, so you could fucking ambush me? That would be a joke if it wasn't just so pathetically sad. You're a real piece of shit. The phrase "don't confuse me for the facts, I have an opinion" has never been more perfectly realised in someone as it is realised in you. Your language is perverse and fucking disgusting. Your hatred of other human beings is fetid. I hope to Christ that you are never given a fucking lick of power because if you ever are, people will suffer. Here's one for you, I could give a fuck what your background, race, creed, sex, or religion is. I'm saying this based entirely on the fact that you're a fucking asshole. GO FUCK YOURSELF!
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07-04-2012, 07:05 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2012 07:09 AM by bemore.)
RE: Human Worth
At the end of the day Quidsane you seem to dimiss genetics in people....... so I suppose you believe in Eugenics???

What about people who are born disabled???? What happens if you were to have a child that was complelty normal and then when they reach puberty they start to show signs of schizophrenia???

You would cold-heartedly just fucking kill your own flesh and blood.... ignoring the fact that they cannot help themselves and if they could they would want to be "normal" just like me and you..... that they were not allways "different" and at times they show creativity, compassion, empathy and love???

That no matter what they do or say they too experience feelings like fear..... that the world is probably a pretty fucked up place to them and very very confusing???

You would wish to wipe out a certain section of society because of "resources"......... ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Money is just a man made concept that only exists in the power that the general population gives it....... Open your eyes and see that in this stupid "recession" we have had they have just injected more money into the system and by rights it isnt actually fucking backed up by anything except promises of labour by the people of that country.

You want something to blame???? Blame this fucked up shitty worldwide society that never learns from its previous mistakes and that because of greed and manipulation exploits and produces people who are born into poverty and have to exist somehow so they do the only thing they know..... the only thing they are shown by there peers....... which is scrape there way through life wondering why nobody fucking cares.

YOUR THINKING is part of the problem, you wish to eradicate certain people yet isnt this what has allways been done????

As long as you keep doing that whilst not addressing the issues that causes these problems then life will continue to go down the shitter on planet earth.

Of course all life has worth....... to say that it doesnt..... well you are being a bit fucking hippocritical because im sure your not perfect and if you wish to eradicate people for things they cannot seriously help then you may as well accept yourself being eradicated because of the colour of your skin, hair, eyes. The shape of your nose, jaw line. If you are fat, big boned or slim.

Where do you draw the line????

(sarcastic smiley) Smile

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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07-04-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: Human Worth
(05-04-2012 01:36 PM)Quidsane Wrote:  "They are human beings first and foremost and deserve to be treated as such, regardless of how vile you might think their position is."
My question is: Is this true?

Yes, qualified by how you normally treat human beings.

Quote: My assumption is that by "treated as such", he means "treated with dignity".

Would be nice if that were a universal rule.

Quote: Is all human life worth something? Are some human lives worth nothing?

One's treatment of a life form is not necessarily based on the worth or value of that life, but rather on one's own attitude toward life in general; a species or individual in particular.

Quote: Do all human beings have some intrinsic value, irrespective of their position?

To me, it's not about position but actions. I think of humans as starting out with a finite amount of credit, which they either supplement or exhaust by their behaviour.

Quote: If yes, does this apply to pedophiles? How about sociopaths?

That would depend on the degree to which these people were in control of their actions; whether the harm they did was voluntary and deliberate, impulsive or compulsive - case by case. If i had to decide about all sociopaths as a class, i'd handle them with caution, like explosives; all pedophiles as a class, like toxins, in protective gear. Malice is not helpful.

Quote: What about christians or muslims? Is "religious bigotry" acceptable?

I judge them individually, as many are very nice people who do more good than harm in the world. Their belief does not originate with them; the believer is not responsible for the philosophical bases of their religion and often are not even aware of the bulk of their theology. They're not all bigots - and even if they were, how would i improve the situation by becoming one also?

Quote: Is any form of bigotry acceptable?

Acceptable, no. Inevitable, yes. Curable? Possibly, but not through invective.

Quote:When diversity meets political correctness, does it/can it lean toward the ridiculous?

All human communication verges on the ridiculous all the time. We seek balance and rarely achieve it.

Quote:Are all human ideas sacred and therefore beyond criticism? How about human feelings?

Nothing is sacred. Everything is subject to criticism. Constructive criticism may nudge communication toward balance and understanding, one fraction of a millimeter at a time; derision and hostility may nudge it toward implacable hatred.
How you feel is personal. How you communicate affects the environment in which that communication takes place.
I prefer a peaceful and cheerful environment, so i try to be polite - most of the time.
It's not about human worth; it's about what you want to achieve.


PS I hate hectically moving signatures, but i don't go around berating people for using one.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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07-04-2012, 09:04 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2012 09:08 AM by Quidsane.)
RE: Human Worth
(07-04-2012 06:04 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals are not fact. Your killing story is great, except for the fact that it has no relationship with fact whatsoever. So perhaps before you call something that is demonstrably correct total bullshit, you should first, if I may be so bold, acquaint yourself with the facts.

You know what, I was going to respond to your entire post, but there's no fucking point. You dismiss Buber? Just so you can earn some cheap points? And you demonstrate your bigotry in the process! Whatever, man. I assumed that you were someone capable of rational conversation. You're not, you fucking fly by night troll. Enjoy your liberal use of the word bullshit you fucking hypocrite. "Wank, wank, wank, whine, whine, whine, someone told my my shit was stupid and here I am saying everything Matt wrote is bullshit." For real, man, fuck you. You PM me, you invite me to this thread, just so, what, so you could fucking ambush me? That would be a joke if it wasn't just so pathetically sad. You're a real piece of shit. The phrase "don't confuse me for the facts, I have an opinion" has never been more perfectly realised in someone as it is realised in you. Your language is perverse and fucking disgusting. Your hatred of other human beings is fetid. I hope to Christ that you are never given a fucking lick of power because if you ever are, people will suffer. Here's one for you, I could give a fuck what your background, race, creed, sex, or religion is. I'm saying this based entirely on the fact that you're a fucking asshole. GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Wow. I don't agree with you and that makes me an asshole. OK.
Looks like what is said about you around here is correct.
Have a nice day. Thumbsup


(07-04-2012 07:05 AM)bemore Wrote:  At the end of the day Quidsane you seem to dimiss genetics in people....... so I suppose you believe in Eugenics???

What about people who are born disabled???? What happens if you were to have a child that was complelty normal and then when they reach puberty they start to show signs of schizophrenia???

You would cold-heartedly just fucking kill your own flesh and blood.... ignoring the fact that they cannot help themselves and if they could they would want to be "normal" just like me and you..... that they were not allways "different" and at times they show creativity, compassion, empathy and love???

That no matter what they do or say they too experience feelings like fear..... that the world is probably a pretty fucked up place to them and very very confusing???

You would wish to wipe out a certain section of society because of "resources"......... ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Money is just a man made concept that only exists in the power that the general population gives it....... Open your eyes and see that in this stupid "recession" we have had they have just injected more money into the system and by rights it isnt actually fucking backed up by anything except promises of labour by the people of that country.

You want something to blame???? Blame this fucked up shitty worldwide society that never learns from its previous mistakes and that because of greed and manipulation exploits and produces people who are born into poverty and have to exist somehow so they do the only thing they know..... the only thing they are shown by there peers....... which is scrape there way through life wondering why nobody fucking cares.

YOUR THINKING is part of the problem, you wish to eradicate certain people yet isnt this what has allways been done????

As long as you keep doing that whilst not addressing the issues that causes these problems then life will continue to go down the shitter on planet earth.

Of course all life has worth....... to say that it doesnt..... well you are being a bit fucking hippocritical because im sure your not perfect and if you wish to eradicate people for things they cannot seriously help then you may as well accept yourself being eradicated because of the colour of your skin, hair, eyes. The shape of your nose, jaw line. If you are fat, big boned or slim.

Where do you draw the line????

(sarcastic smiley) Smile



I draw the line at those who bring grievous harm to innocent people.
How was I not clear?
The claim is that all human life is sacred. I say it's not.
If you want to bring the disabled into it, that your prerogative.
But you're arguing against a point that I never made.

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07-04-2012, 10:42 AM
RE: Human Worth
(07-04-2012 09:04 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  If you want to bring the disabled into it, that your prerogative.
But you're arguing against a point that I never made.
What would be the point of that? Even if their crimes were something they couldn't help because of mental illness,

recessive gene, etc., my response would be "That's unfortunate. You still have to die."


Your words.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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07-04-2012, 04:55 PM
RE: Human Worth
(07-04-2012 10:42 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(07-04-2012 09:04 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  If you want to bring the disabled into it, that your prerogative.
But you're arguing against a point that I never made.
What would be the point of that? Even if their crimes were something they couldn't help because of mental illness,

recessive gene, etc., my response would be "That's unfortunate. You still have to die."


Your words.
...which you've taken out of context.
Here's the whole passage:

I simply do not agree that ALL human life is sacred or of some value.
For instance, I cannot see any value in the life of a serial-rapist, or sociopath, or pedophile, or any combination thereof.
They harm innocent people. They harm society. They cannot be reasoned with. They cannot be cured.
I certainly don't think precious resources should be wasted keeping these creatures alive.
What would be the point of that? Even if their crimes were something they couldn't help because of mental illness,
recessive gene, etc., my response would be "That's unfortunate. You still have to die."


As you can plainly see, the word "their" in "Even if their crimes" refers to

a serial-rapist, or sociopath, or pedophile, or any combination thereof.

It does not refer to the disabled. I would say "nice try" but it was actually pretty lame.

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07-04-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: Human Worth
Feel the Love....

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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07-04-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: Human Worth
(07-04-2012 08:19 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Nothing is sacred. Everything is subject to criticism. Constructive criticism may nudge communication toward balance and understanding, one fraction of a millimeter at a time; derision and hostility may nudge it toward implacable hatred.
How you feel is personal. How you communicate affects the environment in which that communication takes place.
I prefer a peaceful and cheerful environment, so i try to be polite - most of the time.
It's not about human worth; it's about what you want to achieve.


PS I hate hectically moving signatures, but i don't go around berating people for using one.


You seem to be asserting that a heated, passionate debate is something that shouldn't be had,
especially if it produces negative feelings in one party or the other.
I'm sure you have an impeccable proficiency in politeness, but to what end?
I wouldn't want to live in a world where every conversation is sterile and sanitary,
and nothing is ever said that could possibly be offensive to anyone. I find that terribly sad.

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08-04-2012, 01:36 AM
RE: Human Worth
(07-04-2012 05:28 PM)Quidsane Wrote:  
(07-04-2012 08:19 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Nothing is sacred. Everything is subject to criticism. Constructive criticism may nudge communication toward balance and understanding, one fraction of a millimeter at a time; derision and hostility may nudge it toward implacable hatred.
How you feel is personal. How you communicate affects the environment in which that communication takes place.
I prefer a peaceful and cheerful environment, so i try to be polite - most of the time.
It's not about human worth; it's about what you want to achieve.


PS I hate hectically moving signatures, but i don't go around berating people for using one.


You seem to be asserting that a heated, passionate debate is something that shouldn't be had,
especially if it produces negative feelings in one party or the other.

No, i didn't assert that. I said i would prefer that it be done civilly, intelligently and with at least one ear open to the other person's point of view, because, otherwise, the channels of communication will be dammed. Or, if i didn't say that, i should have.

Quote:I'm sure you have an impeccable proficiency in politeness, but to what end?

Not an end - continuity.

Quote:I wouldn't want to live in a world where every conversation is sterile and sanitary,

Your preference is noted. You have my leave to leave.

Quote:and nothing is ever said that could possibly be offensive to anyone.

Oh, somebody will always find something to be offended about! It doesn't take a total dickhead to be offensive; being one just makes it faster and easier.

Quote: I find that terribly sad.
"I weep for you," the Walrus said:

"I deeply sympathize."

With sobs and tears he sorted out

Those of the largest size,

Holding his pocket-handkerchief

Before his streaming eyes.






It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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08-04-2012, 05:17 AM
RE: Human Worth
(07-04-2012 04:55 PM)Quidsane Wrote:  I simply do not agree that ALL human life is sacred or of some value.


It does not refer to the disabled. I would say "nice try" but it was actually pretty lame.
Well seeing as you mentioned recessive genes and dont see that as a justification for reasoning on why people behave..... Yes you didnt mention the disabled but I put them in the same class.

Although in some sense these people all fall under the catergory of being "disabled" to some degree.

I like the fact though that you skirted one of my previous questions in one of my posts.......... that in what would you do if one of your family members/loved ones had a problem that made them do something "horrific" to somebody else and hurt them.

Even though you yourself would realise that this problem was the cause...... would you still say "That's unfortunate. You still have to die."

Its an inconvenient question comparable to your views so you can be the "lame" one and just ignore it if you please Laughat

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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