Human Worth
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08-04-2012, 09:39 AM
RE: Human Worth
bemore, bemore, bemore...

First of all, stop trying to force your definition of disabled onto my argument.
I've already made my position clear. If you don't like it, fine.
But don't try to twist things around to support your straw-man.

Secondly, I skirted nothing.
You're the one fawning over Ghost's... post.
Which included this line:

"Anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals are not fact."

Apparently, that only applies to things I say. Rolleyes

Whatever. I disagree with you. Get over it.
Debating is fantastic, healthy even.
But don't come with this penny-ante bullshit.

The life of a criminally-deranged sociopath (oxymoron?) has no value.
Stay focused and try arguing with that.
...or lose your mind and have an emotional breakdown when
someone disagrees with you, like your buddy Ghost.
It's your choice.

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08-04-2012, 09:49 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2012 09:58 AM by bemore.)
RE: Human Worth
(08-04-2012 09:39 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  bemore, bemore, bemore...

First of all, stop trying to force your definition of disabled onto my argument.
I've already made my position clear. If you don't like it, fine.
But don't try to twist things around to support your straw-man.

Secondly, I skirted nothing.
You're the one fawning over Ghost's... post.
Which included this line:

"Anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals are not fact."

Apparently, that only applies to things I say. Rolleyes

Whatever. I disagree with you. Get over it.
Debating is fantastic, healthy even.
But don't come with this penny-ante bullshit.

The life of a criminally-deranged sociopath (oxymoron?) has no value.
Stay focused and try arguing with that.
...or lose your mind and have an emotional breakdown when
someone disagrees with you, like your buddy Ghost.
It's your choice.
Quidsane Quidsane Quidsane.......

Skirted my hypothetical question again.

Are you a politician or a lawyer????

So we disagree apparently on what falls under the term "disabled"....... I never put anything onto your arguement so you can fuck right off with those sort of accusations..... it was merely a misunderstanding on my part obviously.

Let me ask you again simply....... these people you "despise", who have no worth in your eyes.... would you still want them killed if it was one of your family members, a dear loved one..... even though you know what the cause was????

We are having a healthy debate after all...... im only trying to understand your point of view a little bit by asking that question

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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08-04-2012, 11:01 AM
RE: Human Worth
Quidsane, Quidsane, Quidsane.

Just because you're a petty little man who cannot stop invoking my name, I'll put you in your place. I don't care that you disagreed with me. Lots of people do. And yes, debate is healthy. But saying that you disagreed with me and that you were debating presumes that you offered some sort of coherent argument. You did nothing of the sort. You acted the fool. So you were treated like a fool. And now you're pouting. Well, if you want sympathy, look in the dictionary between shit and syphilis. If you have something other than 'bullshit' to say, I'm all ears. Until that time, please stop winging and whining about your scolding. And yes, it is true what people say about me around here. I offer insightful, often controversial opinions, I'll engage anyone about any subject and I have zero patience for bullshit.
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08-04-2012, 11:16 AM
RE: Human Worth
(08-04-2012 11:01 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Quidsane, Quidsane, Quidsane.

Just because you're a petty little man who cannot stop invoking my name, I'll put you in your place. I don't care that you disagreed with me. Lots of people do.

The enemy of my enemy... is still my enemy. Tongue

My Gwynnies is my fact, Jack. Move it along, John. Big Grin

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08-04-2012, 07:31 PM
RE: Human Worth
(08-04-2012 09:49 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(08-04-2012 09:39 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  bemore, bemore, bemore...

First of all, stop trying to force your definition of disabled onto my argument.
I've already made my position clear. If you don't like it, fine.
But don't try to twist things around to support your straw-man.

Secondly, I skirted nothing.
You're the one fawning over Ghost's... post.
Which included this line:

"Anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals are not fact."

Apparently, that only applies to things I say. Rolleyes

Whatever. I disagree with you. Get over it.
Debating is fantastic, healthy even.
But don't come with this penny-ante bullshit.

The life of a criminally-deranged sociopath (oxymoron?) has no value.
Stay focused and try arguing with that.
...or lose your mind and have an emotional breakdown when
someone disagrees with you, like your buddy Ghost.
It's your choice.
Quidsane Quidsane Quidsane.......

Skirted my hypothetical question again.

Are you a politician or a lawyer????

So we disagree apparently on what falls under the term "disabled"....... I never put anything onto your arguement so you can fuck right off with those sort of accusations..... it was merely a misunderstanding on my part obviously.

Let me ask you again simply....... these people you "despise", who have no worth in your eyes.... would you still want them killed if it was one of your family members, a dear loved one..... even though you know what the cause was????

We are having a healthy debate after all...... im only trying to understand your point of view a little bit by asking that question


No skirting.
If my son turns out to be a criminally-deranged sociopath, then he's already dead.
I would volunteer to throw the switch myself.
Irrelevant though, right? Since your girlfriend has already whimpered:
"Anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals are not fact."

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08-04-2012, 08:57 PM
RE: Human Worth
(08-04-2012 11:01 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Quidsane, Quidsane, Quidsane.

Just because you're a petty little man who cannot stop invoking my name, I'll put you in your place. I don't care that you disagreed with me. Lots of people do. And yes, debate is healthy. But saying that you disagreed with me and that you were debating presumes that you offered some sort of coherent argument. You did nothing of the sort. You acted the fool. So you were treated like a fool. And now you're pouting. Well, if you want sympathy, look in the dictionary between shit and syphilis. If you have something other than 'bullshit' to say, I'm all ears. Until that time, please stop winging and whining about your scolding. And yes, it is true what people say about me around here. I offer insightful, often controversial opinions, I'll engage anyone about any subject and I have zero patience for bullshit.


What a lame-ass attempt at face-saving. Rolleyes
Let me get this straight:
YOU
have an emotional meltdown over being disagreed with, and I'M the "petty little man"?
You're a delusional self-serving cunt.
In fact, why are you still here?
Didn't you already take your ball and go home?

*Ahem*
You say all human life is sacred/has value. I say it isn't/doesn't.
I introduce an example (criminally-deranged sociopath). You throw a hissy-fit.
It would seem that this whole thing hinges on this:

Explain the value of the life of a criminally-deranged sociopath who has tortured and murdered your children.

My contention is that this individual's life is worthless and expendable,
and therefore not all human life is sacred/has value.

Have an argument that this individual's life is valuable?
Can you present it without pissing yourself?
If I have to answer anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals then so do you.

P.S. Fuck your patience. Shithead.

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09-04-2012, 03:03 AM
RE: Human Worth
(06-04-2012 07:46 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Wall o' text? Imma not gonna read it.



You really should, its the by far the best thing Ive read this year.

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09-04-2012, 05:36 AM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2012 06:08 AM by Humakt.)
RE: Human Worth
bemore, bemore, bemore...

First of all, stop trying to force your definition of disabled onto my argument.

All right SHENNANIGINS, thats not how it works, you entered this, for the sake of arguement, lets call it debate into the public forum. This does not belong to you, secondly I see no forcing of his defintion being forced in anywhere what I see is the expansion of your limited understanding of the term to more closely resemble what the word actually means.


I've already made my position clear. If you don't like it, fine.

Again, you entered this into a public forum, if you wanna play pracher man, then get a placard and find a street corner to rant from.

But don't try to twist things around to support your straw-man.

Secondly, I skirted nothing.
You're the one fawning over Ghost's... post.
Which included this line:

"Anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals are not fact."

Apparently, that only applies to things I say. Rolleyes

Well it does when you use anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals. As it applies to every and anyone else who does.

Whatever. I disagree with you. Get over it.
Debating is fantastic, healthy even.

Really, debating is healthy. But people who disagree with you and your argument should shut the fuck up. Once more I call shennagins.


But don't come with this penny-ante bullshit.

If your not open to debate, dont post in a public forum. Or more accuratly post all you, but consider sparing us your ravings when people take your lunatic views to task.

The life of a criminally-deranged sociopath (oxymoron?) has no value.
Stay focused and try arguing with that.

But only do so in a way you agree with, shannagins.


...or lose your mind and have an emotional breakdown when
someone disagrees with you, like your buddy Ghost.
It's your choice.

Really, he gets to choose. He gets to choose to agree with you or shut the fuck up. Shennanigins, I say.



In short, shennangins, and despite your demands, I also am going to disagree with you. As far Im concerned, even your life has value despite your efforts to devalue its worth.








It would seem that this whole thing hinges on this:

Explain the value of the life of a criminally-deranged sociopath who has tortured and murdered your children.

My contention is that this individual's life is worthless and expendable,
and therefore not all human life is sacred/has value.

Have an argument that this individual's life is valuable?
Can you present it without pissing yourself?
If I have to answer anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals then so do you.

P.S. Fuck your patience. Shithead.

In your own words:

No skirting.
If my son turns out to be a criminally-deranged sociopath, then he's already dead.
I would volunteer to throw the switch myself.
Irrelevant though, right? Since your girlfriend has already whimpered:
"Anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals are not fact."


You advocate the exact behaviour you deem worthy of death, if your son does indeed turn out to be a criminally-deranged sociopath, perhaps that could be said to be an example of heredity at work, but its like your mommy said aint it if you are what you eat.

Oh and I'll save you the trouble of replying Im a retard and gay and shut the fuck up and bow before your wisdom and realise Im being a crying girly girl who has no right to live.

But in an attempt to let you argue your own arguement, I'll let you sum up in your own words:


Explain the value of the life of a criminally-deranged sociopath who has tortured and murdered your children.

My contention is that this individual's life is worthless and expendable,
and therefore not all human life is sacred/has value.

No skirting.
If my son turns out to be a criminally-deranged sociopath, then he's already dead.
I would volunteer to throw the switch myself.
Explain the value of the life of a criminally-deranged sociopath who has tortured and murdered your children.

Explain the value of the life of a criminally-deranged sociopath who has tortured and murdered your children.

My contention is that this individual's life is worthless and expendable,
and therefore not all human life is sacred/has value.

Rinse and repeat.

Now you get back to shouting at the voices in your head,

Get well soon.

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09-04-2012, 06:52 AM
RE: Human Worth
Quidsane.

You're a punk. But you're also like masturbating with a cheeze grater. Slightly amusing, but mostly painful. And so I wade in.

I didn't throw a hissy fit, I called you out. You can't tell the difference because you display zero personal accountability. Such is life.

So you know, it's actually impossible to respond to "bullshit" reiterated ten times with anything other than, "no it's not." So while this may be the level of scintillating conversation you are used to with the other kids just before nap time, I prefer to speak about ideas and facts, you know, adult things.

Since you're like a dog with a bone on the whole anecdotal fantasy hypothetical tip, here's your lesson.

To support your position, you offered an anecdote. Here's an example of anecdotal evidence, "Black people must be criminals because I got mugged by a black guy once." You are taking a single example and trying to use it to defend an entire position (that my statement: Human beings cannot kill other human beings UNLESS they dehumanise them in some way: was total bullshit). That's not how life works I'm afraid. It's also demagoguery to try and win an argument by tugging on the heart strings of your audience. You characterise this person as a monster in an attempt to illicit an emotional response to the example. Well emotional responses have little to no scientific value. Fact does.

It's fantastic because you've invented this scenario in which a maniac driver runs over an eight year old and you, champion of all champions, strangle the man to death. You might as well have offered an example where a psychopath drops pies from a hot air balloon. And to top it off, your fantasy creates a powerful frame in which the only possible response to such an event is vengeance by strangulation.

And it's a hypothetical because you're saying, "Imagine this happened."

Your example was an anecdotal fantasy hypothetical.

I, on the other hand, can offer facts. Read Oliver Stone's book, "On Killing," or anything by Konrad Lorenz. Read US Army training manuals or look at the US study conducted during the Pacific campaign of World War II that showed that only 15% of the marines were doing the bulk of the fighting. Or perhaps you could read some 101-level developmental psychology text. Or read something about psychopathy and sociopathy. You see, I anchor my opinions to fact. Try it some time.

And yes, you're a petty little man because you responded to my post, I thought somewhat eloquently, and then went on to take shots at me for many posts afterwards; eliminating any credit I had given you. You are a petty man who couldn't let go.

Why am I still here? Well, I came here in the first place because you invited me personally. Then after inviting me, you shat all over me. I prefer if my host offers cheeze and crackers, but life is full of strange customs. After I told you to go fuck yourself for inviting me in, only to throw poop at me, you kept droning on about me while others echoed my distaste for you and tried to offer facts, to which you offered no coherent counter-argument. I stayed to read what other people were writing because, shocker I know, it's not all about you. After hearing your constant petty shots at me, I felt the need to speak up. So you may lick my ball sack at your leisure.

Quote:Explain the value of the life of a criminally-deranged sociopath who has tortured and murdered your children.



My contention is that this individual's life is worthless and expendable,

and therefore not all human life is sacred/has value.



Have an argument that this individual's life is valuable?

Can you present it without pissing yourself?

If I have to answer anecdotal fantasy hypotheticals then so do you.

Your position is that if someone harms another it is an unforgivable act regardless of context. It's a popular position and a woefully unconsidered one. Thankfully the courts recognise that there are situations in which a person did not have command of their faculties during the commission of a crime and that, while a crime did in fact occur, they need medical attention rather than punishment. And yes, the "insanity plea" is abused, but abuse doesn't invalidate the fact that some people are simply ill. People like you want to treat these illnesses as some flaw in the person and you use simplistic language like "they're just evil" but it's not a flaw, it's an illness. The ill deserve our sympathy; or would you call a man with a broken leg an asshole because he can't keep up in the marathon? ALL mental health disorders can be treated. That doesn't mean they can be cured and it doesn't mean that sometimes individuals don't need to be separated from the rest of the population during their treatment, it means that steps can be taken to help the person, because they ARE a person. They need and deserve help. So while vilifying them makes it easier for people like you to dehumanise them, call them monsters and call for their murder, the facts, thankfully, paint a much different picture.

Again, you rely on demagoguery. Yes, if a sociopath killed my children I'd be pissed. And it's easy to present a situation and frame it so that the only logical response would be for me to call out for blood. But there are other ways to deal with it. Punitive justice is not the only justice system in the world. In South Africa, after the fall of the apartheid system, Nobel Peace Prize laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu set up the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It's primary goal was not to punish, but to provide a forum in which everyone could simply admit to the truth of what happened. It employed restorative justice. People admitted to murder and kidnapping and to the entire spectrum of horrible things that occurred under apartheid and the families and friends of victims finally got to hear what really happened. The point of the TRC was to say, these things happened. We must admit to them and recognise them and face them so that we can move past them as a people. The TRC was well received locally and internationally and was wildly successful. So while small minded people like yourself are content to call out for blood, those who have experienced true atrocity are capable of a level of forgiveness that you cannot comprehend. Many of the people who committed terrible acts went on to become productive members of the new South African society because no one lost sight of their humanity. It was the denial of humanity that led to apartheid in the first place.

Your entire argument proves my point. It hinges on the fact that sociopathic child-murdering monsters are not human. But in order to characterise them that way, you have to deny their humanity. You offer no evidence or even opinion to support WHY they are not human, you simply trust that your demagogic tirade will carry the day and that others will simply assume their inhumanity as you do. Thankfully no one has taken your bait.

Now if you'll excuse me, I urinated in my pants while writing this and I need to clean up to avoid chafing.
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09-04-2012, 09:46 AM
RE: Human Worth
Quidsane........

You brought the subject up......then when you face opposition to your belief system you then go on the offensive by throwing silly , petty and derailing insults.

Things that im afraid I will not bite to

I may have wrote my first response here adding a few swearwords to emphasise my feelings towards this subject.... I have nothing against you as I believe we are all here to debate things and I still have nothing against you although the way you conduct yourself by trying to be smart just shows the whole forum of the sort of character that you are.

Thats all I have to say on the subject now seeing as you are not willing to openly debate things properly and I shall be steering clear of your threads and I would appreciate it if you didnt bother to reply to any of my threads in the future as they wont be welcomed by me.

Thank you.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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