Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
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20-04-2014, 05:54 PM
Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
Hello everyone. For my 1st post, I'd like to discuss a dubious theistic claim I heard a few days ago. According to the latter: in rejecting Abrahamic religions, one has nothing but arbitrary reasons for justifying human dignity, while these religions, because they hold we were created in the image of God, have the best justification.

What's your opinion on that assertion?
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20-04-2014, 06:28 PM
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
(20-04-2014 05:54 PM)Doubter Wrote:  Hello everyone. For my 1st post, I'd like to discuss a dubious theistic claim I heard a few days ago. According to the latter: in rejecting Abrahamic religions, one has nothing but arbitrary reasons for justifying human dignity, while these religions, because they hold we were created in the image of God, have the best justification.

What's your opinion on that assertion?

Welcome aboard.

And ... good question.

Of the two definitions of arbitrary that I quickly perused on the Google machine:

1. based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

Fair enough. Except that our randomness is a product of evolution... so it's whimish within biological constraints.

2. (of power or a ruling body) unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.

That sounds very much like theocracy to me.

Consider

[add Monty Python, Spanish Inquisition here]

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20-04-2014, 06:32 PM
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
(20-04-2014 06:28 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-04-2014 05:54 PM)Doubter Wrote:  Hello everyone. For my 1st post, I'd like to discuss a dubious theistic claim I heard a few days ago. According to the latter: in rejecting Abrahamic religions, one has nothing but arbitrary reasons for justifying human dignity, while these religions, because they hold we were created in the image of God, have the best justification.

What's your opinion on that assertion?

Welcome aboard.

And ... good question.

Of the two definitions of arbitrary that I quickly perused on the Google machine:

1. based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

Fair enough. Except that our randomness is a product of evolution... so it's whimish within biological constraints.

2. (of power or a ruling body) unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.

That sounds very much like theocracy to me.

Consider

[add Monty Python, Spanish Inquisition here]





I gotch yo back bro Thumbsup

Atir aissom atir imon
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20-04-2014, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2014 07:05 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
(20-04-2014 05:54 PM)Doubter Wrote:  Hello everyone. For my 1st post, I'd like to discuss a dubious theistic claim I heard a few days ago. According to the latter: in rejecting Abrahamic religions, one has nothing but arbitrary reasons for justifying human dignity, while these religions, because they hold we were created in the image of God, have the best justification.

What's your opinion on that assertion?

Sounds like Utilitarianism, backwards. So what exactly is their point ?
a. you get to make up, or buy into shit because it produces the result you want ?
b. if that is NOT the point, then what IS their point ? That religions are useful , therefore valuable, regardless of the belief content ?
Is it useful because it's good, or is it good because it's useful ? Either way, they're saying it's valuable because of its use.
I doubt that the assertion that humans are "born in sin" and require "salvation" says much about human dignity.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ Humans have "dignity" by virtue of being human.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-04-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
(20-04-2014 05:54 PM)Doubter Wrote:  Hello everyone. For my 1st post, I'd like to discuss a dubious theistic claim I heard a few days ago. According to the latter: in rejecting Abrahamic religions, one has nothing but arbitrary reasons for justifying human dignity, while these religions, because they hold we were created in the image of God, have the best justification.

What's your opinion on that assertion?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dignity

dig·ni·ty
noun \ˈdig-nə-tē\

: a way of appearing or behaving that suggests seriousness and self-control

: the quality of being worthy of honor or respect




The idea of "human dignity" is itself an arbitrary and essentially meaningless bowl of word salad.

This argument is just another flimflam of semantic prestidigitation, like the "for there to be laws there must be a lawgiver" and "there must be a cause for 'uniformity in nature', therefore gawd" horseshit we have been discussing elsewhere in the forum this week.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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20-04-2014, 06:49 PM
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
If theists want to think living on their knees and begging for mercy is dignified, let them.

"Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees".
Midnight Oil.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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20-04-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
If you were to remove not just Abrahamic religions but all religions I think that we, that is humans, could still be dignified, would still have morality and more than likely would treat each other considerably better, with dignity even. Thumbsup

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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21-04-2014, 01:49 AM
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
(20-04-2014 05:54 PM)Doubter Wrote:  in rejecting Abrahamic religions, one has nothing but arbitrary reasons for justifying human dignity
Being part of a human society, forced us to get along with the members of our own tribe. It forced us to create rules of society to protect most of its human members.

Globalisation forced us to extend the whole "get along" to people of other tribes, cultures, beliefs etc.

Now we respect each other by being tolerant of diversity.

Shame many abrahamic believers struggle with the simple concept of "being tolerant of diversity" but any thousands old religion is going to be fraught with limitations.
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21-04-2014, 02:40 AM
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
Human dignity means respect for humanity.

It is inherent in our biological make-up.

Humans are the most successful species because we not only evolved pack instincts and the ability to work together but also the ability for individuals to specialise.

If a bee hive or ants nest can be considered by biologists to be a single organism, you could argue that the same applies to entire populations of humans. We all rely on other people doing their jobs in order to do ours and to function as a whole. This means that we respect other people contributing to society. Not only that but we look after members of society unable to.

Humans sacrifice themselves for others, even strangers. People do dangerous jobs which in no way adequately financially reward them.

As usual, religion has taken something inherent to our human nature and claimed it as its own.
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21-04-2014, 03:00 AM
RE: Human dignity: a problem for atheists?
I'm not sure I've got the entire gist of the question, but I'll answer according to my thinking on the idea of human dignity.

Yes, my understanding and bestowal of human dignity on others became challenged after becoming atheist.

While a Christian, I did believe dignity was a human right by the very nature of us as creation and children of a creator, yes, in the image of god--so to speak. In that way, I understood dignity as an inherited right,

Now, however, as an atheist, I see human dignity as a façade; something we bestow on those we deem worthy by some capricious standard, picking and choosing whom to raise above the sewers of life and declare," her dignity was stolen from her" or "see, he died with such dignity."

I now believe human dignity is a façade, an untruth used to mask the baseness found in human experiences. There is no truth in a word that serves as a façade.

I do not look through the same tinted glasses I wore as a Christian. I believe I am simply a bit freer to look a bit further for the answers to my questions.

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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