Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
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01-08-2014, 04:16 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(01-08-2014 03:46 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 03:35 PM)isNaN Wrote:  What I meant to say is that I want them to face up to what they have done, rather than committing suicide.

Death penalty is a bit of a far way from committing suicide Wink I get what you're saying. Thing is, those who're sensitive enough to feel shit about it will do so without legal interference, and those who aren't, won't, and there's nothing much to be done about that.
We talked about giving the right to commit suicide to convicted criminals too, beside the death penalty. Death is the easy way out for convicts who have committed horrendous crimes.
I don't think it's that simple and that every hardcore criminal can be generalized that way, that they aren't sensitive enough to feel anything anyway. As far as possible they should undergo therapy in prison, hopefully after feeling remorse they might become a better person, not that this will make up for what they have done. If I could make it happen I would want them to work and their income, besides facilitating their upkeep would serve to help people who had suffered from crimes that have been committed by criminals like them.
Surely some will never feel remorse but not all.
It must be terrible for the victims family to see the murderer, torturer of the person they loved commit suicide and escape justice and facing what they have done that way.

Fuck Israeli state and Hamas. Fuck their war.

Maryam Namazie

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01-08-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(01-08-2014 04:16 PM)isNaN Wrote:  It must be terrible for the victims family to see the murderer, torturer of the person they loved commit suicide and escape justice and facing what they have done that way.

Vengeance is a shitty deal all round IMO. Sure, make some kind of plan to make sure that the guy won't do it again, but otherwise... it's not gonna bring the loved ones back. IMO, if a criminal would literally commit suicide to avoid spending more time in jail then jail is waaaaaay too inhumane.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-08-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(01-08-2014 11:12 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 04:16 PM)isNaN Wrote:  It must be terrible for the victims family to see the murderer, torturer of the person they loved commit suicide and escape justice and facing what they have done that way.

Vengeance is a shitty deal all round IMO. Sure, make some kind of plan to make sure that the guy won't do it again, but otherwise... it's not gonna bring the loved ones back. IMO, if a criminal would literally commit suicide to avoid spending more time in jail then jail is waaaaaay too inhumane.

What I'm talking about is justice, not vengeance.
Committing suicide to avoid court and having to face the victims family and friends and the general public.
Having to go to jail, sharing the facility with other hardcore criminals is justice too.

Fuck Israeli state and Hamas. Fuck their war.

Maryam Namazie

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02-08-2014, 02:21 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 02:15 PM)isNaN Wrote:  Having to go to jail, sharing the facility with other hardcore criminals is justice too.

In your opinion. As I said:
Quote:IMO, if a criminal would literally commit suicide to avoid spending more time in jail then jail is waaaaaay too inhumane.

This is then not justice, that is just legally sanctioned torture.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-08-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 02:21 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 02:15 PM)isNaN Wrote:  Having to go to jail, sharing the facility with other hardcore criminals is justice too.

In your opinion. As I said:
Quote:IMO, if a criminal would literally commit suicide to avoid spending more time in jail then jail is waaaaaay too inhumane.

This is then not justice, that is just legally sanctioned torture.

No, it's facing up to the consequences of your actions, something that every child has to do to grow into a mature adult.

Fuck Israeli state and Hamas. Fuck their war.

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02-08-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 02:23 PM)isNaN Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 02:21 PM)morondog Wrote:  In your opinion. As I said:

This is then not justice, that is just legally sanctioned torture.

No, it's facing up to the consequences of your actions, something that every child has to do to grow into a mature adult.

In your opinion Rolleyes What's with you guys? You're all so goddamn convinced that repeating stuff will magically make others agree with you.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-08-2014, 02:35 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 02:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 02:23 PM)isNaN Wrote:  No, it's facing up to the consequences of your actions, something that every child has to do to grow into a mature adult.

In your opinion Rolleyes What's with you guys? You're all so goddamn convinced that repeating stuff will magically make others agree with you.

It's like I said a million years ago. Some people just really like vengeance. They will never convince those of us who do not. Revenge is a statistically variable impulse.

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02-08-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 02:35 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 02:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  In your opinion Rolleyes What's with you guys? You're all so goddamn convinced that repeating stuff will magically make others agree with you.

It's like I said a million years ago. Some people just really like vengeance. They will never convince those of us who do not. Revenge is a statistically variable impulse.

Considering this joker likes the idea of chopping off peoples' hands...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-08-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 02:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 02:23 PM)isNaN Wrote:  No, it's facing up to the consequences of your actions, something that every child has to do to grow into a mature adult.

In your opinion Rolleyes What's with you guys? You're all so goddamn convinced that repeating stuff will magically make others agree with you.

I think there is a fundamental disconnect here. There are 2 competing philosophies on Penal Justice one is based around rehabilitation and solving the base problems that cause crime, the other is based around vengeance for for the victim. They are incompatible because the rehabilitation route is seen as "soft" and "not punishing the criminal" by the vengeance crowd and the vengeance route is seen as "inefficient" and "inhumane" by the rehabilitation crowd. There are more facts on the rehab side more feels on the vengeance side and very little middle ground because they are diametrically opposed.

So basically do you want to fix the actual problem or do you want an eye for an eye because you cannot have both.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-08-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 02:43 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 02:35 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It's like I said a million years ago. Some people just really like vengeance. They will never convince those of us who do not. Revenge is a statistically variable impulse.

Considering this joker likes the idea of chopping off peoples' hands...

Excellent argument Thumbsup

Fuck Israeli state and Hamas. Fuck their war.

Maryam Namazie

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