Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
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02-08-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 03:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  However, there are people for whom no amount of rehabilitation will be successful. They are broken people, inherently so or made so by others. What next? Consider

*Those* people can be identified and dealt with differently - it doesn't have to be a one size of electric chair fits all solution...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-08-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 03:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 03:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Well I think both sides want a safer society but one side has much more supporting data than the other.

I think everyone knows that they need to appeal to safety in their rhetoric, but if they're actually following the data...

Yabut, there is at least one pair of diametrically opposed points of view: emotional and utilitarian.

Each side of that divide will have differences amongst them, but there may be little hope for bridging that without serious consciousness raising. Much like the gulf between the rational and the religious.

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02-08-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 03:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 03:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I think everyone knows that they need to appeal to safety in their rhetoric, but if they're actually following the data...

Of course we need a rehabilitative penal system. It is humane and it works.

However, there are people for whom no amount of rehabilitation will be successful. They are broken people, inherently so or made so by others. What next? Consider

Those people tend to be the the exception and not the rule. Anders Breivik is in the "softest" penal system in the world. He will spend the rest of his life there as well. Just because he is not living in a hole getting fed 3 times a week does not mean the entire system is bad. Yes there is 0 chance he can be rehabilitated but most men are not Anders Breivik so, to me, it makes infinitely more sense to base the system around the average criminal than the exceptions.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-08-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 03:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 03:14 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I think everyone knows that they need to appeal to safety in their rhetoric, but if they're actually following the data...

Yabut, there is at least one pair of diametrically opposed points of view: emotional and utilitarian.

Each side of that divide will have differences amongst them, but there may be little hope for bridging that without serious consciousness raising. Much like the gulf between the rational and the religious.

Well, yes. That's the point.

But you can't argue emotional impulses, because you can't be reasoned out of them - and so to justify positions, even if they're emotionally founded, people generally frame their arguments consequentially. That's what I meant by my comment.

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02-08-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 03:28 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Those people tend to be the the exception and not the rule. Anders Breivik is in the "softest" penal system in the world. He will spend the rest of his life there as well. Just because he is not living in a hole getting fed 3 times a week does not mean the entire system is bad. Yes there is 0 chance he can be rehabilitated but most men are not Anders Breivik so, to me, it makes infinitely more sense to base the system around the average criminal than the exceptions.

There is also zero chance that he will ever harm anyone again regardless.

So there's that.

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02-08-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: Humanist Approach to the Capital Punishment
(02-08-2014 03:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-08-2014 03:28 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Those people tend to be the the exception and not the rule. Anders Breivik is in the "softest" penal system in the world. He will spend the rest of his life there as well. Just because he is not living in a hole getting fed 3 times a week does not mean the entire system is bad. Yes there is 0 chance he can be rehabilitated but most men are not Anders Breivik so, to me, it makes infinitely more sense to base the system around the average criminal than the exceptions.

There is also zero chance that he will ever harm anyone again regardless.

So there's that.

Zero chance? Is he a paraplegic without any teeth left in his head, now? Evil_monster
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So long as that percentage stays constant, and is never by some miracle broken, I'm cool with it.

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