Humans are guilty of existing
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01-03-2014, 01:02 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 12:50 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 12:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Sure

Is cancer also an utility?

Cancer is a means of death and death is necessary for beings which reproduce, live in a finite space, and consist of finite resources.

Cancer serves the useful purpose of killing people.
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01-03-2014, 01:11 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2014 01:20 AM by donotwant.)
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
Ok then I have 3 questions.

  1. Could god create world where nobody has to suffer?
  2. Could god create world where nobody has to die?
  3. Why does cancer give people pain and not orgasms?
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01-03-2014, 01:17 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 01:11 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 01:02 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Cancer is a means of death and death is necessary for beings which reproduce, live in a finite space, and consist of finite resources.

Cancer serves the useful purpose of killing people.

Ok then I have 3 questions.

  1. Could god create world where nobody has to suffer?
  2. Could god create world where nobody has to die?
  3. Why does cancer give people pain and not orgasms?

A1. I don't know, but lets posit that He could.
A2. I don't know, but lets posit that He could.
A3. It gives people pain because it is disease and pain is how the body communicates to the consciousness that there is something wrong.
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01-03-2014, 01:18 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 01:11 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 01:02 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Cancer is a means of death and death is necessary for beings which reproduce, live in a finite space, and consist of finite resources.

Cancer serves the useful purpose of killing people.

Ok then first question. Why does cancer give people pain and not orgasms?

You weren't fast enough on your turbo edit. I answered all three. I prefer to answer one at a time though. I like short and sweet and not huge essays.
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01-03-2014, 01:21 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
You are saying that god must kill us cause otherwise there will be too many of us. However god could design orgasmic cancer instead of a painful one and kill us in orgasmic ways but he decided to kill us in painful ways instead. Is that evil or not?
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01-03-2014, 01:22 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 12:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Suffering exists because it provides utility. It wouldn't have evolved otherwise.

Pain has obvious evolutionary utility, but there's no obvious reason why a god thingy would need or want evolution at all.

Quote:Most arguments I hear from atheists boil down to "there is too much death and suffering and that is what makes it evil"......which is silly.

It's only silly if you think your god thingy has limited powers. If he's basically just a really good programmer, but not omnipotent, or omnicient, then sure - evolution fits that model.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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01-03-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
Heywood come back don't run Rolleyes
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01-03-2014, 01:39 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 01:21 AM)donotwant Wrote:  You are saying that god must kill us cause otherwise there will be too many of us. However god could design orgasmic cancer instead of a painful one and kill us in orgasmic ways but he decided to kill us in painful ways instead. Is that evil or not?

If God killed us in orgasmic ways life would not fight and struggle to survive.

(01-03-2014 01:22 AM)toadaly Wrote:  Pain has obvious evolutionary utility, but there's no obvious reason why a god thingy would need or want evolution at all.

Many religions hold that God created humans to love and serve Him of their own free will. A clock tells time because it is designed to tell time and not because it has any free will. If God had designed humans to love and serve Him, they would love and serve Him not of their free will but because they had been designed to do so.

Further many religions hold that God created humans in His own likeness. If God is undersigned then He may want to create undersigned humans so that they are like Him.

Evolution can be consistent with many of the dogmas of the worlds religions.
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01-03-2014, 01:41 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
So we must fight cancer?
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01-03-2014, 01:53 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
Okay so I seem to get the consensus from this thread that the agreement is that god created methods of death to kill people to not overcrowd the earth from the theists
Might I pose the question if humans developed the technology to live a lot longer (thinking centuries or so)
Would we as humans be able to also solve the population issue?
It took Microsoft to get computers mainstreamed for everyone's use.
If one man can build a company that large in one lifetime imagine what world problems could be fixed by one man.
(Man as I have used it is being used in a humanitarian terminology meaning both men and women included)

Anyways that's why i think if a god wanted to cleanse the gene pool a little or do some population control would come down and do it itself: deseases and disasters not necessary.

I believe a quote from the Inheritance Cycle by Christopher poiloni said it best when an elf explained to Eragon of why elf's are agnostic "if such a god exists to create diseases and death then we should be at war with god"(all quoted from memory and I really don't feel like looming up the quote exactly at this hour)
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