Humans are guilty of existing
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01-03-2014, 04:11 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
But why does it matter to you?
I thought you didn't believe in it?
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01-03-2014, 04:12 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 04:11 AM)englishrose Wrote:  But why does it matter to you?
I thought you didn't believe in it?
It will not matter to me once theists will no longer exist.
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01-03-2014, 04:15 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
So you're trying to convince theists that god is evil therefore they shouldn't believe in it?
Good luck with that one.
They'll always have a get out clause.
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01-03-2014, 04:16 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 04:15 AM)englishrose Wrote:  So you're trying to convince theists that god is evil therefore they shouldn't believe in it?
Good luck with that one.
They'll always have a get out clause.

Belief in a god and gods character are 2 different issues. What I am arguing is that if god exists he is not worthy of worship and looking up to.
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01-03-2014, 04:19 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
Well, I agree with you but god-botherers can see no wrong in him so you're on a hiding to nothing.
If they're not going to be convinced by the evidence to the contrary for his existence, an argument about whether he is evil is like pissing in the wind.
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01-03-2014, 04:48 AM
Re: RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 12:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have a feeling you misunderstood the argument the theist was making.

As a theist, I will say that it is my opinion that diseases and natural disasters (like earth quakes and such) are not evil. The death of human beings is necessary because if death did not occur eventually the entire mass of the earth would be converted into a throbbing mass of human beings. Death requires a means....hence disease, accidents, natural disasters, old age, etc. Suffering exists because it provides utility. It wouldn't have evolved otherwise.

Most arguments I hear from atheists boil down to "there is too much death and suffering and that is what makes it evil"......which is silly.

Your idea of god seems to be a little different than that of a typical theist.

So if I may divert from the discussion about evil and just ask you something out of curiosity....

If God is creating balance (I think that's what your point is) by doing the 'necessary thing' so that we can live in this world then what is your motivation for believing in him and religion? If he is just doing what he needs to do then will he ever answer your prayers? Isn't a mother praying for her son's cure from cancer wasting her time?
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01-03-2014, 07:41 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
Haven't we beat the "God and evil" dead horse enough? It's been done.

One thing I saw was a comment on how disease is necessary to avoid overpopulation and allow reproduction. I disagree. Human beings could be without disease but still die due to violence and accidents. Or quiet death from old age. All those would still happen without painful debilitating disease.

To the OP: you were clearly not a catholic. The things they consider sins just get silly. Did you know breathing is a sin? So is pooping and eating.
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01-03-2014, 09:00 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2014 05:51 PM by Chas.)
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
The 'problem of evil' simply disappears if there is no god. Poof.

A naturalistic explanation of the universe does not include evil; only the moral judgments of conscious beings includes evil.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-03-2014, 09:20 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 09:00 AM)Chas Wrote:  The 'problem of evil' simply disappears if there is no god. Poof.

A naturalistic explanation of universe does not include evil; only the moral judgments of conscious beings includes evil.

Yes. Exactly.
Couldn't have put it better myself. I tried but you, Chas, are clearly more eloquent than I.
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01-03-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 02:35 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  We are discussing the problem of evil not the existence of God. Some atheists claim a good God can't exist because evil exists. An implied premise in that atheistic argument is that it is logically possible for a good God to exist(the opposite is also an implied premise). Now you're shifting the goal post to argue against that particular premise. Stick to the topic at hand. Can a good God exist when "evil" exists in the world.

How can you discuss the topic of evil in relation to a god without first defining the god you're talking about? The god you're talking about does not seem to be the typical omni-3 god almost certainly implied in the OP, which makes your argument a red herring.

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