Humans are guilty of existing
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01-03-2014, 09:52 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 07:41 AM)natachan Wrote:  Haven't we beat the "God and evil" dead horse enough? It's been done.

One thing I saw was a comment on how disease is necessary to avoid overpopulation and allow reproduction. I disagree. Human beings could be without disease but still die due to violence and accidents. Or quiet death from old age. All those would still happen without painful debilitating disease.

To the OP: you were clearly not a catholic. The things they consider sins just get silly. Did you know breathing is a sin? So is pooping and eating.

...or if you were a omni-stuff god that also valued evolution, since you're super-duper smart, you can figure out how to do that.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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01-03-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 04:48 AM)lamexcuses Wrote:  Isn't a mother praying for her son's cure from cancer wasting her time?

I don't think that God intervenes to save people from dying(from diseases).
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01-03-2014, 02:41 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 02:39 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 04:48 AM)lamexcuses Wrote:  Isn't a mother praying for her son's cure from cancer wasting her time?

I don't think that God intervenes to save people from dying.

So why didn't he make orgasmic cancer?
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01-03-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(28-02-2014 11:44 PM)donotwant Wrote:  This is some new apologetics I never seen before. Today I was told that god made the world and the humans. God made diseases and disasters and everything that is bad however everything that's bad that happens to humans is human fault not gods fault because humans are the ones to reproduce and if they would stop nothing bad would happen to them. Therefore god is guilty of nothing. Humans are guilty of everything because they exist.
And by his logic the victims are guilty of everything because no victims = no problem.
How do you like that?

Tell him he's stupid and that he needs to learn more about his own stupid religion:

Genesis 1:28
Quote:God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Looks like the Bible invalidated his apologetics. Oops.
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01-03-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
Well he wasn't a christian. Just a theist.
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01-03-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 03:11 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 03:09 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have been pretty good about answering your questions. How about you answer mine?

Is death and pain intrinsically evil?

Involuntary death and pain yes.

Hmmm

Have you ever heard of this disease?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_...ty_to_pain

Is it your position that Pain is good thing if God doesn't exist but an evil thing if God does exist?
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01-03-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
If god would design us intelligently pain would not be necessary.
But even if we assume that pain is necessary you are saying that he designed cancer as a weapon which should kill us. Why make cancer painful then? He could leave the pain which prevents biting tongue off but make orgasmic cancer. Whats the point of suffering pain from something you can't cure and which is designed specifically for massmurder?
Seems like pointless pain to me designed by an evil god.
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01-03-2014, 07:24 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 06:24 PM)donotwant Wrote:  If god would design us intelligently pain would not be necessary.
But even if we assume that pain is necessary you are saying that he designed cancer as a weapon which should kill us. Why make cancer painful then? He could leave the pain which prevents biting tongue off but make orgasmic cancer. Whats the point of suffering pain from something you can't cure and which is designed specifically for massmurder?
Seems like pointless pain to me designed by an evil god.

"He could leave the pain which prevents biting the tongue off...."

So you agree that pain serves a useful purpose....that it is not intrinsically evil. It seems it is your opinion that pain is good in some instances and evil and others....which makes your argument less of an argument and more of a subjective opinion. I hope you realize subjective opinions do not have persuasive power.

When something is amiss in the body two good things need to happen. First, it needs to be communicated to the consciousness that something is amiss in the body. Second, the consciousness needs an incentive to correct what is amiss in the body. If cancer pain were "orgasmic", people would know there is something amiss in the body but they would have no incentive to correct it. They would put off getting care just so they could enjoy their cancer longer. The idea of orgasmic pain is rubbish. Pain needs to be uncomfortable for it to work.

I don't know why God made disease as a means to kill us off. I can speculate though. It may be God's intention that humanity grows both in knowledge and wisdom. Because death by disease is so distasteful, we have an incentive to cure it and avoid it. In order to cure and avoid disease, humanity needs to learn how the body works, how biology works, how chemistry works, how physics works, etc.

I have no doubt that humanity will be able to cure all diseases and achieve something close to immortality. We will still die from time to time...murder...catastrophic accidents...etc. When we reach near immortality, I suspect we will also have the technology to move off world, colonizing the solar system and eventually the galaxy. Overpopulation will not be a problem as there is plenty of space....we just need to move to it and develop it so it is suitable to us. Pain will have been instrumental in getting us there.
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01-03-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 03:44 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Well he wasn't a christian. Just a theist.

I guess that changes it a bit. But only the Genesis quote part. He still believes in a god that is creep and/or too weak to deal with problems.
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02-03-2014, 12:49 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(28-02-2014 11:44 PM)donotwant Wrote:  This is some new apologetics I never seen before. Today I was told that god made the world and the humans. God made diseases and disasters and everything that is bad however everything that's bad that happens to humans is human fault not gods fault because humans are the ones to reproduce and if they would stop nothing bad would happen to them. Therefore god is guilty of nothing. Humans are guilty of everything because they exist.
And by his logic the victims are guilty of everything because no victims = no problem.
How do you like that?

Christianity is a self loathing, slave minded, religion, driven by the idea that the nature of human beings is negative. It is designed by the weak, for the weak, and it spawns only weakness. It is through embracing our nature that we become fulfilled.

Freedom and gratification come from embracing sexuality, and associating it with life and a celebration of life, as it ought to be, leads to happiness and fulfillment.

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