Humans are guilty of existing
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02-03-2014, 12:53 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 12:01 AM)Drich Wrote:  In your uncontainable zeal to report your new find you've forgotten the key purpose of appologetics. That is the exegesis and defense of scripture. Something your new discovery lacks. Maybe ask the person who has rattled your cage with this for some book chapter and verse.

You are sad. If your religion was successful and relevant, or even remotely dominant, you wouldn't need "apologetics". If your bible was worth anything to humanity, it wouldn't need defenders, and it wouldn't have attackers. Since when have you Christians needed to explain yourselves? What? You aren't allowed to silence heretics and unbelievers anymore? Too bad.

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02-03-2014, 12:56 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 12:17 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 12:02 AM)donotwant Wrote:  He is a theist but does not have a book Rolleyes

Then rest assured 'he' is referring to his own personal version of God and not Speaking of the God of the bible.

So are you, hypocrite. If your faith held uniform beliefs, there wouldn't be Catholics and Protestants. You don't even lie well, so why bother? You are just embarrassing yourself.

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02-03-2014, 12:58 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 01:02 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 12:50 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Is cancer also an utility?

Cancer is a means of death and death is necessary for beings which reproduce, live in a finite space, and consist of finite resources.

Cancer serves the useful purpose of killing people.

I won't consider it useful until it is gnawing on you.

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02-03-2014, 04:48 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(01-03-2014 07:24 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-03-2014 06:24 PM)donotwant Wrote:  If god would design us intelligently pain would not be necessary.
But even if we assume that pain is necessary you are saying that he designed cancer as a weapon which should kill us. Why make cancer painful then? He could leave the pain which prevents biting tongue off but make orgasmic cancer. Whats the point of suffering pain from something you can't cure and which is designed specifically for massmurder?
Seems like pointless pain to me designed by an evil god.

"He could leave the pain which prevents biting the tongue off...."

So you agree that pain serves a useful purpose....that it is not intrinsically evil. It seems it is your opinion that pain is good in some instances and evil and others....which makes your argument less of an argument and more of a subjective opinion. I hope you realize subjective opinions do not have persuasive power.

When something is amiss in the body two good things need to happen. First, it needs to be communicated to the consciousness that something is amiss in the body. Second, the consciousness needs an incentive to correct what is amiss in the body. If cancer pain were "orgasmic", people would know there is something amiss in the body but they would have no incentive to correct it. They would put off getting care just so they could enjoy their cancer longer. The idea of orgasmic pain is rubbish. Pain needs to be uncomfortable for it to work.

I don't know why God made disease as a means to kill us off. I can speculate though. It may be God's intention that humanity grows both in knowledge and wisdom. Because death by disease is so distasteful, we have an incentive to cure it and avoid it. In order to cure and avoid disease, humanity needs to learn how the body works, how biology works, how chemistry works, how physics works, etc.

I have no doubt that humanity will be able to cure all diseases and achieve something close to immortality. We will still die from time to time...murder...catastrophic accidents...etc. When we reach near immortality, I suspect we will also have the technology to move off world, colonizing the solar system and eventually the galaxy. Overpopulation will not be a problem as there is plenty of space....we just need to move to it and develop it so it is suitable to us. Pain will have been instrumental in getting us there.
Why would he create pain in the first place if he indents us to get rid of it later? He likes brutal developments?
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04-03-2014, 07:14 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(02-03-2014 04:48 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Why would he create pain in the first place if he indents us to get rid of it later? He likes brutal developments?

God allows the emergence of pain for the reasons already listed in this thread. Pain is means to communicate that something is amiss in the body to the consciousness. Pain needs to be uncomfortable in order to incent the consciousness to do something about the problem in the body.

I never claimed that God intends to get rid of pain later. We have it in our ability to master pain and control it.

You still have failed to show that God allowing pain to exist is an evil act on His part. Your argument amounts too, "If I were God I woulda done it better and because God didn't do it the way I woulda done it He must be evil". It is not a compelling/persuasive argument.
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04-03-2014, 07:41 PM
Humans are guilty of existing
So God is not powerful enough to prevent suffering?

β€œIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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04-03-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(04-03-2014 07:41 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  So God is not powerful enough to prevent suffering?

Suffering evolved because it is useful. Why should God want to prevent it?
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04-03-2014, 09:06 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(04-03-2014 07:44 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 07:41 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  So God is not powerful enough to prevent suffering?

Suffering evolved because it is useful. Why should God want to prevent it?

Suffering is useful yes but couldn't this god fellow come up with something equally effective but less painful. I mean he is god. He is all powerful right?
To answer your question.. He wouldn't want to prevent suffering if he is an asshole. So if god is real he is an asshole!
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04-03-2014, 09:15 PM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
(04-03-2014 09:06 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(04-03-2014 07:44 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Suffering evolved because it is useful. Why should God want to prevent it?

Suffering is useful yes but couldn't this god fellow come up with something equally effective but less painful. I mean he is god. He is all powerful right?

So your argument is God is evil because He allows more pain then you would allow if you if you were God?

If you were God and allowed less pain, there would still be people complaining that you're evil because they think you allowed too much pain.

I hope you can see this "problem with evil" is really just a personal opinion about what you think a good God should and shouldn't do. It is not an intelligent argument which substantiates the non existence of a good God.
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05-03-2014, 06:24 AM
RE: Humans are guilty of existing
Is god good?
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