Hungarian "rape prevention"
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17-01-2015, 04:04 PM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
(25-11-2014 08:43 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  In a further step showing the social, moral and political decline in Hungary, the Hungarian government is airing an advert that blames women for being raped.

Essentialy it tells them that if they go out and drink, it is their own fault if they get raped.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/ungarisch...04926.html

If you don't take precautions, you're partly responsible for anything that happens to you. It applies to everything else, and it applies to this too.
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05-02-2015, 10:50 PM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
(17-01-2015 04:04 PM)Tony Ribbins Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 08:43 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  In a further step showing the social, moral and political decline in Hungary, the Hungarian government is airing an advert that blames women for being raped.

Essentialy it tells them that if they go out and drink, it is their own fault if they get raped.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/ungarisch...04926.html

If you don't take precautions, you're partly responsible for anything that happens to you. It applies to everything else, and it applies to this too.

One night I was in my apartment with my partner at the time. I was sober, he was very drunk, so drunk I thought he was about to pass out. Yet he raped me. He didn't even remember most of the rape, he was black-out drunk. So it's my fault because I chose to be around him while he was drunk? Because I chose to have a partner at all? According to this large 2010 American survey, 1 in 10 women are raped by a partner during their lives - http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pd...010-a.pdf. You don't have to be out at a bar to be raped. Maybe they should be making ads about how people might rape others while they are intoxicated and urge them to just not drink or do drugs anymore. "In 1 in 3 sexual assaults, the perpetrator was intoxicated — 30% with alcohol, 4% with drugs"
(https://rainn.org/get-information/statis...ffenders). That's in the U.S. I don't know what the stats are in Hungary.

(I'm not implying that alcohol and drugs are to blame when people harm others under their influence. I think people who already have such inclinations are more likely to act on them when their brains are affected by such substances.)

Statistically some habits/circumstances/behaviors/whatever can make certain events more likely, though never certain, but I don't see the point in assigning shame and blame or excusing the deliberate actions or harmful negligence of others. All anyone can ever do is take precautions and be aware, but no matter what you do you can never be 100% safe all the time. It's impossible. Everyone is vulnerable and you can never really know what will come your way. The person who deliberately harms you or harms you through negligence is always the most responsible. They went out of their way or were so careless that they harmed someone else. They deserve all of the shame and blame. People focus far too much on the victims. People also tend to blame victims of sexual abuse more than other types of victims. Blaming and shaming them does not help them heal.

It is self-evident that I do not need religion or God to be a moral, happy, productive human being.
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10-02-2015, 02:25 PM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
If you could take precautions against a potential threat and don't I wouldn't blame you. I'd just think you were stupid...
But sometimes we are blindsided and it's impossible to prepare for the unknown.
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10-02-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
In my opinion blaming women for rape is saying that men can't control their urges and that's offensive to me as a man. This is something men need to understand - If you blame women for rape, you are promoting the idea that in some circumstances men are slaves to sexual desire and have to rape (because boys will be boys) ---> I think equating rapists with psychopaths to make it seem like it's preventable (by detecting psychopathic traits) is a bad idea because most rapists are not mentally ill or psychopaths, they are men just like men, only that they happen to think rape is fine. Fuck victim-blaming

Rape happens to anyone (men also) and it doesn't happen just to pretty, skinny white young girls - It happens to every kind of girl with every kind of body, drugged or not, and it happens from someone you know enough to let into your house or workplace. Because of these variables, it is almost impossible to prevent rape accurately - In the analogy with waving a dollar bill in a bad place full of thieves, it is not accurate because rapists don't inhabit specifically an area and they don't come with sings saying they are rapists

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-02-2015, 09:44 AM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
(10-02-2015 08:06 PM)Blackout Wrote:  In my opinion blaming women for rape is saying that men can't control their urges and that's offensive to me as a man. This is something men need to understand - If you blame women for rape, you are promoting the idea that in some circumstances men are slaves to sexual desire and have to rape (because boys will be boys) ---> I think equating rapists with psychopaths to make it seem like it's preventable (by detecting psychopathic traits) is a bad idea because most rapists are not mentally ill or psychopaths, they are men just like men, only that they happen to think rape is fine. Fuck victim-blaming

Rape happens to anyone (men also) and it doesn't happen just to pretty, skinny white young girls - It happens to every kind of girl with every kind of body, drugged or not, and it happens from someone you know enough to let into your house or workplace. Because of these variables, it is almost impossible to prevent rape accurately - In the analogy with waving a dollar bill in a bad place full of thieves, it is not accurate because rapists don't inhabit specifically an area and they don't come with sings saying they are rapists

All true however I must point out that thieves are also not confined to a single area nor do they wear signs..
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15-02-2015, 10:10 AM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
(15-02-2015 09:44 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(10-02-2015 08:06 PM)Blackout Wrote:  In my opinion blaming women for rape is saying that men can't control their urges and that's offensive to me as a man. This is something men need to understand - If you blame women for rape, you are promoting the idea that in some circumstances men are slaves to sexual desire and have to rape (because boys will be boys) ---> I think equating rapists with psychopaths to make it seem like it's preventable (by detecting psychopathic traits) is a bad idea because most rapists are not mentally ill or psychopaths, they are men just like men, only that they happen to think rape is fine. Fuck victim-blaming

Rape happens to anyone (men also) and it doesn't happen just to pretty, skinny white young girls - It happens to every kind of girl with every kind of body, drugged or not, and it happens from someone you know enough to let into your house or workplace. Because of these variables, it is almost impossible to prevent rape accurately - In the analogy with waving a dollar bill in a bad place full of thieves, it is not accurate because rapists don't inhabit specifically an area and they don't come with sings saying they are rapists

All true however I must point out that thieves are also not confined to a single area nor do they wear signs..
I don't care about thieves because theft is very different from rape and happens out of profit (mostly), if everyone had decent quality of life less people would steal. I'm bringing thievery because some people equate asking for rape as being the same as flashing a dollar bill in a bad, poorly habited and very dangerous neighbourhood. It's just not the same. And even when someone is robbed or even murdered I don't see many people saying "the victim was asking for it". For me, the only thing I can do to prevent being robbed is to stay at home at night, otherwise the chances increase significantly - However, even if someone robs me, it's still not my fault, I live in a safe area (but not 100% safe as with any place in the world) and I need to go out at night.

The only way you could ask for rape would be to carry a sign saying "I want to be raped". Other than that, asking for it is, many times, having a few beers, sending "mixed" signals (code for behaving like a decent human being like smiling, etc) or choosing how to dress (despite the fact there's no evidence that your clothes affect chances of being raped... Just look at Saudi Arabia)

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-02-2015, 11:20 AM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
(25-11-2014 08:50 PM)pollyanna Wrote:  It can't be that hard to NOT rape someone. I have seriously gone almost 25 years without raping anyone! Super duper simple!

This comment would be super funny if you were like 52 or something.

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15-02-2015, 02:01 PM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
(15-02-2015 10:10 AM)Blackout Wrote:  
(15-02-2015 09:44 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  All true however I must point out that thieves are also not confined to a single area nor do they wear signs..
I don't care about thieves because theft is very different from rape and happens out of profit (mostly), if everyone had decent quality of life less people would steal. I'm bringing thievery because some people equate asking for rape as being the same as flashing a dollar bill in a bad, poorly habited and very dangerous neighbourhood. It's just not the same. And even when someone is robbed or even murdered I don't see many people saying "the victim was asking for it". For me, the only thing I can do to prevent being robbed is to stay at home at night, otherwise the chances increase significantly - However, even if someone robs me, it's still not my fault, I live in a safe area (but not 100% safe as with any place in the world) and I need to go out at night.

The only way you could ask for rape would be to carry a sign saying "I want to be raped". Other than that, asking for it is, many times, having a few beers, sending "mixed" signals (code for behaving like a decent human being like smiling, etc) or choosing how to dress (despite the fact there's no evidence that your clothes affect chances of being raped... Just look at Saudi Arabia)

I agree but you're missing my point. Rapists will rape. I see no issue with attempting to take precautions against it. Whatever those precautions might be.
I'm not blaming victims here and I don't recall saying anything about how people dress..
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15-02-2015, 02:34 PM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
I'll tell a little story.
Years back a coworker invited me out for a joint and a few beers after work. I didn't get fucked up but I had a little buzz goin. I left the bar and hoped on the sky train (this was in BC). It was a little late in the evening for commuting and there was only a few people on the train. After a couple of stops there was me and some lady left. I hadn't noticed her before but now I had realized that she was unbelievably beautiful. Honestly I was mezmorized. As I snaped out of it I thought I should go over and talk to her but at that moment she pulled a bunch of keys out of her purse. I suddenly realized I was staring, dirty and a little drunk and that I had made her nervous. I felt kinda embarrassed and I got off at the next stop to wait for another train.
Let's imagine I was a scumbag. Let's imagine my intentions were what she seemed to think they were. Would she have been better to ignore me or was taking a precaution such as arming herself the better choice. If she had done nothing and I was a rapist you certainly couldn't say it would have been her fault but I see nothing wrong with taking some steps to help insure safety.
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15-02-2015, 03:38 PM
RE: Hungarian "rape prevention"
Yeah, but most rapes don't really happen like that (example - With a stranger in a public train). Not everyone has the same reaction, some people like me are very afraid of contact with scary strangers, some people don't know how to react, many react with apathy or paralysis. If you know how to defend yourself then it is fine, but most women getting raped are not trained in self-defence and are disadvantaged physically - If the opponent is bigger and stronger it gets complicated, not to mention that not everyone assumes a stranger coming up at you is going to rape you. I've had people seriously stopping me at night to ask for the time and they didn't harm me. Curiously I'm betting that if someone got robbed at night and didn't defend himself/herself no one would blame the person for it, specially if she/he was scared of the robber. If you replace the robbery with rape the blame is shifted.

The "rapists will rape" misses the point - There's no such thing as good or bad people, just people with better and worse educations. Most rapists are not psychopaths or mentally ill people, they are men like me and you that happen to rationalize their sexual predatory behaviour really well. They genuinely think raping is fine and excusable. You probably have noticed that every parent teaches kids to not kill and rob, but only to not rape at a later time. Teaching people how to consent and how to not consent isn't a bad idea, and because most rapists are not psychos that shows us precisely that they are motivated by a power-submission sadistic pleasure and feel the need to rationalize it all the time, they could not be rapists if they were taught from an early age to not rape. When you notice that clinically a rapist is mentally the same as you and me, what is your conclusion?

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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