Hunger Games
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06-02-2018, 09:24 AM
RE: Hunger Games
(06-02-2018 09:22 AM)julep Wrote:  
(05-02-2018 01:35 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I once complained to a priest that I was losing my faith, and he told me to read Lewis's Mere Christianity (despite Lewis not being Catholic). All it was was a sort of lowest-common-denominator list of what Christians believed. It gave no reason at all why I should believe any of it -- so I didn't. I continued to lose my faith, and now it's all gone. And that's wonderful.


Wait...whut? You didn't find the "liar, lunatic, or lord" argument convincing?

I think American Christians like Lewis so much because of his elite pedigree (Oxford! Cambridge!), which nullifies all elites who aren't on their side, just as the .001% of scientists who are Young Earth creationists nullify all the rest. They don't realize that Lewis would have found most American Christians horrifying and doltish.

I wonder if he's as popular in the UK as he is here?

I find him absolutely unreadable now, but I went through all of his works that I could find as a child and young adult, including those stupid space novels, Til We Have Faces, Screwtape Letters, Surprised by Joy, etc., etc.

I feel like after all this Lewis talk, I want to go back and read the Skrew Tape Letters again and see what I think today, vs what I thought long ago when I read it.
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06-02-2018, 09:30 AM
RE: Hunger Games
(06-02-2018 09:22 AM)Emma Wrote:  I think you can still kind of enjoy some of those books. Just make sure your children know that the author is a dick and that they can't just accept whatever he writes because they liked the Narnia stories. Tongue

Also- gimboid... that's a new one for me. Never heard it before! Laugh out load
Aye, the stories are pretty good generally, so think we'll carry on. To be fair, I didn't know he was a religious nut bag until just now, so think she'll be fine haha.

And gimboid, is a saying I picked up from Red Dwarf (a low budget UK sci-fi comedy), as with most things I say, I stole it from some old TV show Laugh out load

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06-02-2018, 10:04 AM
RE: Hunger Games
(06-02-2018 09:22 AM)julep Wrote:  
(05-02-2018 01:35 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I once complained to a priest that I was losing my faith, and he told me to read Lewis's Mere Christianity (despite Lewis not being Catholic). All it was was a sort of lowest-common-denominator list of what Christians believed. It gave no reason at all why I should believe any of it -- so I didn't. I continued to lose my faith, and now it's all gone. And that's wonderful.


Wait...whut? You didn't find the "liar, lunatic, or lord" argument convincing?

That argument only works if you assume up front that the Gospels are accurate historical reporting. Even when I was a practicing Catholic, I never quite believed that. If they are fan fiction written decades after the supposed events by people who weren't there, than all bets are off, and Lewis's argument is no more convincing than a similar argument about Moby-Dick or Harry Potter.
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06-02-2018, 10:39 AM
RE: Hunger Games
(05-02-2018 01:39 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  Any philosophical assessment involving suffering has to keep in mind what suffering is: a neurological imposition of discomfort when the senses perceive stimuli beyond normal frequency/intensity, discomfort to drive the organism to change things until the sensory stimuli fall back to normal levels. Absent suffering we'd walk off cliffs and burn our limbs off, or persist in life-shortening social reliationships. Suffering is crucial to survival, and is at the core of evolutionary advance to sturdier biological configurations.

But it's an imperfect mechanism, so goes off when it needn't, and can't be consciously overridden (actually, that last is important - if it COULD be consciously overridden we'd be right back to walking off cliffs and burning our limbs off). We tend to regard it as unnecessary because we dislike it and its imperfections when what we should be doing is refining it to be less imperfect - but WITHOUT giving ourselves such conscious control over it we defeat what it does for us. This inherent paradox of its nature probably means some degree of imperfection is inescapable.

So suffering is inescapable.

You are, of course, right as it pertains to reality. With religion though, it's like God took the knowledge of this useful biological trait and used it for his own sadistic pleasure in the form of diseases, disabilities, debilitating injuries, etc. Things we certainly don't need for survival. In other words, God turned something good into something evil. God is the problem of evil.

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06-02-2018, 02:25 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2018 02:28 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Hunger Games
(05-02-2018 09:45 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Jennifer Lawrence is hot, though! Blush

That's the important thing. Everything else is a distraction.

(06-02-2018 10:39 AM)Impulse Wrote:  You are, of course, right as it pertains to reality. With religion though, it's like God took the knowledge of this useful biological trait and used it for his own sadistic pleasure in the form of diseases, disabilities, debilitating injuries, etc. Things we certainly don't need for survival. In other words, God turned something good into something evil. God is the problem of evil.

Only if speciesism is correct, though. In a sense we're all elaborate hand puppets engaged in a titanic struggle amongst microorganisms. :/

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06-02-2018, 04:54 PM
RE: Hunger Games
(05-02-2018 08:11 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Anyway, my point it, when a Christian claims free will, whether they admit it or not, they're saying God allows us to do evil for his own enjoyment.
Well, of course.

He did create Satan, after all. Evil_monster

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06-02-2018, 06:40 PM
RE: Hunger Games
(06-02-2018 09:22 AM)Emma Wrote:  
(05-02-2018 09:45 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Honestly, there's not even such a thing as 'evil'.

Not a supernatural "evil", no. But certainly we might classify things as evil for their extreme lack of empathy- child torture and rape, sex slavery, child sex slavery, slavery in general; the ownership of another human for whatever purposes is horrendous, the rape of any person, and murder. I think I'd classify those as evil in that they are extremely lacking in empathy. Sure there are varying degrees of missing empathy in any situation- but I think these situations show an extreme lack of empathy, at least for the victims.

Perhaps you can find some justifications for things like murder that might mean your empathy is simply placed elsewhere, but idk (I'm thinking of extreme examples like, being forced to murder someone or someone will kill your family, or whatever... movie plots). I can't imagine that being the case for any such crime involving harming children, though. Undecided

We certainly might. And I do, all those despicable things you list. But that's still how we Feel about those things. I could see, way back in the darks of time, the raping of the enemy's children as a manifestation of some natural instinct to deprive competition of it's contribution to the future gene pool, by replacing it with one's own. Maybe it was never acceptable behavior, even when only perpetrated against the children of an enemy group, but I wouldn't be surprised to find it was.

A complete lack of empathy would certainly come in handy, if your Chief commanded you to beat every man, woman, and child, of the neighboring tribe into extinction. I couldn't do it. But that guy could, and sleep like a baby after, until the next war came along, and he was called upon to do it all over again.
I can't imagine the evolutionary benefit of a sexual preference for children, but it isn't as if there was ever only one Catholic priest born into our species. Undecided Just because we are disgusted by someone's deplorable actions, doesn't necessarily mean they are 'wrong', though. DNA relics from a darker time in our history, perhaps, but not necessarily 'abnormal'.

Higher IQ's, thicker penises, and bigger boobs, can wait. Tongue Genetic Engineering can go ahead and work on ridding us of the 'no longer needed' genes, first. Confused

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06-02-2018, 06:53 PM
RE: Hunger Games
(05-02-2018 09:18 AM)Vera Wrote:  Or, as Annie Dillard bluntly paraphrases it: The sum of human suffering we needn’t worry about: There is plenty of suffering, but no one ever suffers the sum of it.

Consider ... Consider ... I think we might all suffer the sum of it. ... Something about Taylor Series and shit I can't be bothered enough to remember. Smile

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06-02-2018, 06:57 PM
RE: Hunger Games
(05-02-2018 09:45 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Jennifer Lawrence is hot, though! Blush

1) I never heard of her and 2) we have different tastes in what constitutes "hot". I'm not saying she's unattractive, I'm just saying I wouldn't fuck her.

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06-02-2018, 07:03 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2018 07:14 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Hunger Games
(06-02-2018 02:25 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Only if speciesism is correct, though. In a sense we're all elaborate hand puppets engaged in a titanic struggle amongst microorganisms. :/

That's your mistake, brother, you fight them. I am convinced the gut flora know what they're doing, that's why I go with them. Smile
...
There was some TV show where everybody lived inside a giant space whale and there was this little blue alien guy who piloted the whale like you would, well like you would you expect to pilot a giant space whale. I feel like I'm the little blue alien guy. I go with my gut. I use my brain to check my gut, but I go with my gut.
...
Farscape, it was called Farscape. Why do I even need a memory anymore? I just need to retain enough to know what to google. I don't know whether to be excited or scared shitless. Hobo

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