Hush, that's offensive!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18-05-2012, 09:18 PM
Hush, that's offensive!
OK, so there is a story to go with this thread, if you want the thread question just skip to the end.

So anyway, what some of you know is I live with 3 theists. What some of you don't know is that one of those is rather hardcore, like I'm talking gets involved in everything church. If you can imagine hardcore Christian, that is him.

So anyway, here I was watching the Discovery Channel on a documentary about life in our solar system (Fascinating, there is clouds of methane on Mars that fluctuate to the seasons and are clustered in one group venting from below the surface which indicates there is a very high chance that life exists below the surface.) and he decided to sit down and watch too, which is fine usually because my flatmates usually get bored because it isn't mindless dribble about celebrities and walk off after 5minutes. But this time he stayed and watched the whole thing. Anyway at the end things get a little interesting.
Him: "Well I call bullshit"
Me: "Bull shit on what?"
Him: "Life on mars"
Me: "why, there is very strong evidence to support this theory"
Him: "but nobody has seen it so we can't know"
Me: "well of course nobody has seen it but the methane suggests large quantities of methane producing bacteria"
Him: "but you can't take what we see on earth and say it works out there"
Me: "yes we can"
Him: "no you can't. It is bullshit because we haven't seen the life and so we can't know it is there"
Me: "They're not saying it is 100% there, they are saying there is a very high chance"
Him: "Exactly, a chance"
Me: "let me ask you this, you believe 100% in God right?"
Him: "Yes"
Me: "Have you seen him?"
Him: "well no"
Me: "so there is only, in your view, a high chance he exists. This is the same thing."
Him: "No that's different, there is a God"
Me: "based on what?"
Him: "the bible says so"
Me: "So a book written by some peasants hundreds of years ago sways you but a thesis written by modern college educated professors does nothing for you?"
Him: "ARE YOU SAYING 3BILLION PEOPLE ARE WRONG!"
Me: "Yes I am."
Him: "WITHOUT FAITH I AM NOTHING, I WOULD DEAD"
Me: "I don't have faith in a high power and I am living just fine.."
Him: "WHEN I WAS 14 AND GOING TO KILL MYSELF, I FOUND RELIGION AND THAT SAVED ME, WITHOUT RELIGION I WOULD BE DEAD"
Me: "that doesn't mean there is actually a God"
Him: "SO YOU ARE SAYING 3BILLION PEOPLE ARE WRONG!!?"
Me: "yip"
Him: "Well I have pitty on you and look down upon you" *storms off*
Me: "Pray for me then"

And so now I am seen as the bad guy.

This is what I don't understand, why is it so okay to bash Atheists, I mean even the ministers/priests/pastors/whatevers do it. But if a Atheist says one little thing, questions their believes, it is seen as 'taboo' and wrong?
This is just so bull shit, we don't live 1000years ago when you'd get your head lopped off if you questioned the statuesque, we are encouraged to question things, protests, stand up for our rights etc...
What makes theists so special, what makes religious beliefs so special that they magically become exempt from riddical and questioning???

In the conversation with my flatmate I was simply questioning why he thought things, he told me and so I questioned if he believed A for X reason why not use X reason to rationalize your thought to get belief B rather then use Y reason. If that made sense. If this was science there would be no problem. Math? no problem. But because it is religion it becomes a heated issue.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like earmuffs's post
18-05-2012, 09:59 PM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
Thanks for sharing your story.

I think that the reason is simple; religious belief is often a emotional phenomenon.

And if there's one thing I've learned in my years as a marketer, it's that people typically make buying decisions with their impulsive emotions, not with intellect.

Join the Logic Speaks Community

I am the unconverted
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2012, 10:01 PM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
Defensive postering to protect from cognitive dissidence. It is nothing personal because it is completely personal.

Your beliefs do not make you a better person, your behavior does.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Debzilla's post
18-05-2012, 10:25 PM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
For you it's adding up facts. For your roommate, it's a matter of giving up eternal life, it's a matter of life and death. It's pretty personal.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2012, 11:26 PM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
(18-05-2012 10:25 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  For you it's adding up facts. For your roommate, it's a matter of giving up eternal life, it's a matter of life and death. It's pretty personal.

I agree with this person....the OP is trying to put Logic on an Illogical belief, of course they are going to get defensive. Christians (especially born agains and Fundies) really dislike logical disent, the prefer blind "faith" over any form of logic.

I had this arguement with a friend the other night, She believe in aliens (even fantasizes about screwing one) but is a die hard christian. So I asked the logical "how can you believe in aliens and god at the same time, unless you're mormon"?

Immediately she goes on the defensive and says stuff along the lines of "if god put us here then he put them there and we are meant to find each other one day"

So i counter with "but the bible only mentions humans and earth, dont you think god woulda told at least one prophet that there were other being out there trying to find us?"

"No, god wants us to find our own way".....at this point i just nodded and smiled and was like "okay whatever" and left....you cannot present logic to 90% of these people without getting yelled at and called a satanist/unbeliever/hellbound soul...its quite frustrating to be civil and polite when the other is telling me i'm going to burn for eternity.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2012, 11:30 PM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
But just because it is personal does that mean we can't question it?

I love salt and vinegar chips, in fact I eat a lot of them and it is no doubt effecting my health. That is a personal thing but if someone took interest and questioned me about it it wouldn't be seen as offensive. Get what I am trying to say?

Why can't we question personal beliefs?

I'll answer that. Because it might offend somebody. Politically correctness. Because someone once decided that it is better to live in a bubble of ignorance then to have a 5minute cry and come out thinking rationally.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2012, 11:40 PM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
(18-05-2012 11:30 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  But just because it is personal does that mean we can't question it?

I love salt and vinegar chips, in fact I eat a lot of them and it is no doubt effecting my health. That is a personal thing but if someone took interest and questioned me about it it wouldn't be seen as offensive. Get what I am trying to say?

Why can't we question personal beliefs?

I'll answer that. Because it might offend somebody. Politically correctness. Because someone once decided that it is better to live in a bubble of ignorance then to have a 5minute cry and come out thinking rationally.
You can question it, but don't expect to not offend or not have the other person take it personally because it IS personal to them. You are not just telling someone their salt and vinegar chips aren't healthy, you are telling them the chips don't exist and they can't ever have them again.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like LadyJane's post
18-05-2012, 11:44 PM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
There is a difference between politically correct and just respectful of what other people believe.

In my conversation with my friend I try to be polite and cordial when asking the questions because it IS their personal beliefs. She doesnt try to shove her ideas on me she just places them out there for me to ask about. I respect what she believes EVEN IF I THINK IT IS WRONG because as a person to another person she has the right to be heard and listened to.

You cannot expect people to give you respect and politeness without first giving some to them.

If you want to question personal beliefs then do it politely, and if they start getting offended just cut off the conversation to give them time to calm down. I'm not saying to stop asking questions, but to bear in mind that there are two people involved and it's not just your feelings your affecting. A little politeness and helpful suggestion goes a long way.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Likos02's post
19-05-2012, 12:13 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
(18-05-2012 11:30 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Why can't we question personal beliefs?

I'll answer that. Because it might offend somebody. Politically correctness. Because someone once decided that it is better to live in a bubble of ignorance then to have a 5minute cry and come out thinking rationally.

Of course you can but ... should you? I say yes but choose your battles wisely.
In response to "I am offended by that", I like the Ricky Gervais comment... "You have the right to be offended but being offended does not make you right".
LadyJane is right with her analogy... "you are telling them the chips don't exist and they can't ever have them again".
Try this:
1. Find a baby
2. Remove comfort blanket
3. Cover your ears!

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like DLJ's post
19-05-2012, 01:47 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
But just because it offends is just not a good enough excuse not to question things.

If offending is the only way to get through to people in order to pop their bubble, is it not worth it?
Like the baby and comfort blanket, yeah you'll get tears but as that little vermin, I mean baby, grows up it is just not practical to be carrying around a comfort blanket.

And I wasn't being disrespectful. I was simply asking him to use the same logic as to what he came to the conclusion there is a God, to look at the possibility of life on Mars.
Like I said, if this was Math, or Science or something else it wouldn't be considered offensive but because it's "personal" it is and so we immediately have to watch what we say. That is just not good enough.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: