Hush, that's offensive!
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19-05-2012, 01:55 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
Generally I try to word it differently. People immediately put up a wall when you tell them "3 billion people are wrong" - I usually make a comparison. "Just because many people say something is correct, doesn't mean they are correct. This would be the same as asking if all of Mulsims are wrong, or if all Buddhists are wrong. There are billions of people all over the world, all of which have a dominating religious belief depending on your culture and where you live. The question to ask yourself is not why 3 billion people would be wrong, but which primarily dominant amount of religious people could be right and why yours would be correct over theirs."

Or usually something to that effect.

Essentially, appeal to the masses doesn't mean the masses are correct. It simply means a lot of people think it's true.
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19-05-2012, 06:35 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
Hey, Earmuffs.

It's not OK. Obviously.

I'm not saying that all Atheists are white because that's categorically false. But many are; particularly in the US, UK, Canada triumvirate. And it's difficult for them. People who have enjoyed white privilege their entire life find it difficult to suddenly be cast as the minority. They don't have the coping skills. Nothing makes Theists special, they're just the majority.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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19-05-2012, 07:29 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
(19-05-2012 06:35 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Earmuffs.

It's not OK. Obviously.

I'm not saying that all Atheists are white because that's categorically false. But many are; particularly in the US, UK, Canada triumvirate. And it's difficult for them. People who have enjoyed white privilege their entire life find it difficult to suddenly be cast as the minority. They don't have the coping skills. Nothing makes Theists special, they're just the majority.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
So you're saying it is okay for theists to question us because we're the minority and they can get away with that? And we have to shut up because we're the minority? (well not that it is okay but you're saying that is how it is)

I hear a equal rights march stirring in the pot...
"I have a dream today!, that my sons and daughters and there sons and daughters may live in a world free of ignorance, mindless sheep-like-following and a complete lack of rational thought! I have a dream today!!"
Or something like that, like Ive said my American history is shit. You get the drift.

@Logisch, yeah I was gonna say that. One of those things you think of instantly after an argument. Except not quite that long, more something like "the majority of people once thought the earth was flat...".

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19-05-2012, 07:43 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
(18-05-2012 09:18 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Him: "Well I have pitty on you and look down upon you" *storms off*

Me: "Pray for me then"
hahaha this bit made me laugh. He must've wanted to slap you after that Tongue

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Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.


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19-05-2012, 07:52 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
(19-05-2012 07:43 AM)ALovelyChickenMan Wrote:  
(18-05-2012 09:18 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Him: "Well I have pitty on you and look down upon you" *storms off*

Me: "Pray for me then"
hahaha this bit made me laugh. He must've wanted to slap you after that Tongue
That wouldn't be very Christian of him now would it...

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19-05-2012, 07:53 AM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2012 09:52 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
Him: "but nobody has seen it so we can't know"
Him: "but you can't take what we see on earth and say it works out there"
Him: "Exactly, a chance"
Him: "well no"
Him: "the bible says so"
Him: "ARE YOU SAYING 3 BILLION PEOPLE ARE WRONG!"
Him: "WITHOUT FAITH I AM NOTHING, I WOULD DEAD"
Him: "WHEN I WAS 14 AND GOING TO KILL MYSELF, I FOUND RELIGION AND THAT SAVED ME, WITHOUT RELIGION I WOULD BE DEAD"
Him: "SO YOU ARE SAYING 3BILLION PEOPLE ARE WRONG!!?"
Him: "Well I have pitty on you and look down upon you" *storms off*


No one has seen an x-ray. He probably believes in them.

See the Drake Equation. With the discovery that there are 600 sextillion stars, the probabllity that life exists elsewhere, is a virtual certainty. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy...80&bih=603

The Bible does't actually "say" there is a god. It assumes the Yahweh god exists, (along with his wife), and Baal, and many other gods. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg


The "3 billion people" thing is the Logical fallacy called "Agumentum ad Populum". Millions of people also believed the earth was flat. They were ALL wrong.

Re the suicide thing : So they admit it's all about psychology, not really about science or Ancient literature.

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19-05-2012, 08:21 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
Hey, Earmuffs.

Quote:So you're saying it is okay for theists to question us because we're the minority and they can get away with that?

I'm not entirely sure which part of "it's not OK. Obviously," was difficult to comprehend, but it does kind of invalidate your critique Cool

Quote:And we have to shut up because we're the minority?

Come on now. I never said anything even remotely resembling that.

Quote:(well not that it is okay but you're saying that is how it is)

Pretty much. What I'm saying is that there is a reality to the experience of minority groups in Our culture. And while domination of the minority at the hands of the majority occurs, it is, obviously, not OK. But what I suggested is that people who have experienced white privilege their entire lives have never been exposed to that reality before, can't believe it's happening to them and are ill-equipped to deal with it. So there's nothing special about Theists in this case. What they are doing is played out by different dominant groups across the world. Some people have just never been on the receiving end before.

I do get your drift and of course I think it's a good thing for minorities to speak up and demand respect. We live in a system that is inherently exclusionary. Some group(s) will always be marginalised. That must constantly be corrected, even though it's a Sisyphisian exercise in absurd futility. We are in the Nth iteration of the Matrix.





Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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19-05-2012, 08:24 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
It's not about being right, it's about what you are trying to accomplish with the conversation.

You are talking to a human with a known issue - one that s/he has based his/her existance on.

If you pull the carpet out from under them, they will fall, hurt themselves and hate you.

If you slowly lead them off the carpet, they will see that they can stand on the plain ground just as easily.

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19-05-2012, 09:21 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
(19-05-2012 08:21 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Earmuffs.

Quote:So you're saying it is okay for theists to question us because we're the minority and they can get away with that?

I'm not entirely sure which part of "it's not OK. Obviously," was difficult to comprehend, but it does kind of invalidate your critique Cool

Quote:And we have to shut up because we're the minority?

Come on now. I never said anything even remotely resembling that.

Quote:(well not that it is okay but you're saying that is how it is)

Pretty much. What I'm saying is that there is a reality to the experience of minority groups in Our culture. And while domination of the minority at the hands of the majority occurs, it is, obviously, not OK. But what I suggested is that people who have experienced white privilege their entire lives have never been exposed to that reality before, can't believe it's happening to them and are ill-equipped to deal with it. So there's nothing special about Theists in this case. What they are doing is played out by different dominant groups across the world. Some people have just never been on the receiving end before.

I do get your drift and of course I think it's a good thing for minorities to speak up and demand respect. We live in a system that is inherently exclusionary. Some group(s) will always be marginalised. That must constantly be corrected, even though it's a Sisyphisian exercise in absurd futility. We are in the Nth iteration of the Matrix.





Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
The thing is, 40% of people in my country consider themselves Atheists. Only something like 20% say they actively believe, ie: go to church, sacrifice a lamb whatever the theists are up to these days.
So it is not really an issue of minorities.
It is an issue of people saying it is not okay to question their believes because it might upset them. Majority or minority.

Quote: It's not about being right, it's about what you are trying to accomplish with the conversation.

You are talking to a human with a known issue - one that s/he has based his/her existance on.

If you pull the carpet out from under them, they will fall, hurt themselves and hate you.

If you slowly lead them off the carpet, they will see that they can stand on the plain ground just as easily.
An issue he may have had 5-6 years ago.
You don't know this guy, he is not one you would consider mildly depressed let alone suicidal.

And even then just because it may have helped him in his maybe issues 6years ago still doesn't make it true.

Plus I was'nt questioning his believes, I was questioning his thought process. He was the one that asked me if I believed that 3billion were wrong to which I responded. By saying those 3billion are right he is saying I'm wrong.
This is exactly what I mean!, it is okay for him to say I'm wrong but the second I say he is wrong everyone is down my throat!?

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19-05-2012, 09:46 AM
RE: Hush, that's offensive!
Hey, Earmuffs.

You're right to call me out on that. It has more to do with dominance than numbers. In apartheid-era South Africa, whites were like 10% of the population, but were clearly dominant.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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