Hyperion - Dan Simmons
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-07-2014, 11:44 PM
Star Hyperion - Dan Simmons
I finished the first book and i'm considering continuing on to the next one (and maybe finish the series).

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions about the first book, and the later ones? No spoilers for the later ones please. Just impressions and attitudes.

After Dune, I really like the setting of sprawling interstellar religions. Especially crusades/jihads. Not so much pilgrimages. But I hate how "Jews" somehow remain the same. Christ, just because the idea or name remains, doesn't mean they're the same. No religion of today is the same as it was 100yrs ago, let alone 1000yrs ago. And they're going to be different 100yrs from now, let alone 1000yrs (800yrs in the book?) from now.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-07-2014, 11:48 PM
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
(30-07-2014 11:44 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  I finished the first book and i'm considering continuing on to the next one (and maybe finish the series).

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions about the first book, and the later ones? No spoilers for the later ones please. Just impressions and attitudes.

After Dune, I really like the setting of sprawling interstellar religions. Especially crusades/jihads. Not so much pilgrimages. But I hate how "Jews" somehow remain the same. Christ, just because the idea or name remains, doesn't mean they're the same. No religion of today is the same as it was 100yrs ago, let alone 1000yrs ago. And they're going to be different 100yrs from now, let alone 1000yrs (800yrs in the book?) from now.

Jews show up in later Dune books and they are set something like 80,000 years in the future. I know EA reads these books and she was really into them. Will let her know about this thread so she can chime in.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2014, 07:57 AM
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
(30-07-2014 11:48 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(30-07-2014 11:44 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  I finished the first book and i'm considering continuing on to the next one (and maybe finish the series).

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions about the first book, and the later ones? No spoilers for the later ones please. Just impressions and attitudes.

After Dune, I really like the setting of sprawling interstellar religions. Especially crusades/jihads. Not so much pilgrimages. But I hate how "Jews" somehow remain the same. Christ, just because the idea or name remains, doesn't mean they're the same. No religion of today is the same as it was 100yrs ago, let alone 1000yrs ago. And they're going to be different 100yrs from now, let alone 1000yrs (800yrs in the book?) from now.

Jews show up in later Dune books and they are set something like 80,000 years in the future. I know EA reads these books and she was really into them. Will let her know about this thread so she can chime in.

Except the sentence "Jews are a self-identified distinct group" has been true for over two thousand years despite the massive changes in their beliefs and the contexts they're found it. Who's to say that couldn't happen in the future? That's all Dune implies...

Hyperion goes downhill. The second one is almost as good, the third and fourth... meh.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
(31-07-2014 07:57 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(30-07-2014 11:48 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Jews show up in later Dune books and they are set something like 80,000 years in the future. I know EA reads these books and she was really into them. Will let her know about this thread so she can chime in.

Except the sentence "Jews are a self-identified distinct group" has been true for over two thousand years despite the massive changes in their beliefs and the contexts they're found it. Who's to say that couldn't happen in the future? That's all Dune implies...

Hyperion goes downhill. The second one is almost as good, the third and fourth... meh.

Actually Rebecca, the jewish Bene Gesserit, makes a few observations while they are hiding in their bomb shelter that would be stereotypical of modern Jews (mostly academics) implying that they have remained static in nearly all ways across a gulf of time that is beyond comprehension.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
I actually started out with this series by reading the second book, The Fall of Hyperion. I cannot remember now why I started with the second book, except that maybe I borrowed it from the library and they just didn't have the first one? Dunno. But one reviewer actually said he recommended to read the second first, and then to go back and read the background stories of each of the pilgrims (Hyperion).

I have to admit that I liked the second book just a bit more than the first, though... damn... The Priest's Tale. I really loved it. To me, as the pilgrim's stories progressed, they got a little less and less interesting to me. But I digress.

I just finished up the third book, and while I agree it was not the same as the first or second book, I still enjoyed it. There were some of the old characters but also some new ones. I thought that opening scene with Raul (a new character, which I'm sure you already know) was quite powerful, myself.

Fuck... I don't want to go into spoilers or anything, but there are some cool things that go on in the third book. I say, don't write off the later books. They too can be appreciated. Just don't expect Hyperion or Fall of Hyperion redux or anything, and you should be fine. Yes

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Escape Artist's post
31-07-2014, 09:14 AM
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
(31-07-2014 09:12 AM)Escape Artist Wrote:  I actually started out with this series by reading the second book, The Fall of Hyperion. I cannot remember now why I started with the second book, except that maybe I borrowed it from the library and they just didn't have the first one? Dunno. But one reviewer actually said he recommended to read the second first, and then to go back and read the background stories of each of the pilgrims(Hyperion).

I have to admit that I liked the second book just a bit more than the first, though... damn... The Priest's Tale. I really loved it. To me, as the pilgrim's stories progressed, they got a little less and less interesting to me. But I digress.

I just finished up the third book, and while I agree it was not the same as the first or second book, I still enjoyed it. There were some of the old characters but also some new ones. I thought that opening scene with Raul (a new character, which I'm sure you already know) was quite powerful, myself.

Fuck... I don't want to go into spoilers or anything, but there are some cool things that go on in the third book. I say, don't write off the later books. They too can be appreciated. Just don't expect Hyperion or Fall of Hyperion redux or anything, and you should be fine. Yes


HoboHobo THE TOASTER, OH GAWDS ZEE TOASTER!!!!! WeepingWeeping

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
31-07-2014, 09:14 AM
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
(31-07-2014 09:14 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 09:12 AM)Escape Artist Wrote:  I actually started out with this series by reading the second book, The Fall of Hyperion. I cannot remember now why I started with the second book, except that maybe I borrowed it from the library and they just didn't have the first one? Dunno. But one reviewer actually said he recommended to read the second first, and then to go back and read the background stories of each of the pilgrims(Hyperion).

I have to admit that I liked the second book just a bit more than the first, though... damn... The Priest's Tale. I really loved it. To me, as the pilgrim's stories progressed, they got a little less and less interesting to me. But I digress.

I just finished up the third book, and while I agree it was not the same as the first or second book, I still enjoyed it. There were some of the old characters but also some new ones. I thought that opening scene with Raul (a new character, which I'm sure you already know) was quite powerful, myself.

Fuck... I don't want to go into spoilers or anything, but there are some cool things that go on in the third book. I say, don't write off the later books. They too can be appreciated. Just don't expect Hyperion or Fall of Hyperion redux or anything, and you should be fine. Yes


HoboHobo THE TOASTER, OH GAWDS ZEE TOASTER!!!!! WeepingWeeping

Shush, you!!! Tongue

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2014, 02:09 PM
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
I liked the whole series, even the short story afterwards, Orphans of the Helix. I count it among some of the best stuff, on par with Dune.

I find Dune a bit dry... (pun intendend Rolleyes ) That is, Herbert is a master of epic form of writing, but the essence, the ideals are not there. He uses religions as just another power structure to move around masses of people and make them do senseless things to make and resolve his plots and give power to his chosen characters. Religions are just another source of power and there are plenty other sources of power in his universe. Herbert believes in power and sex, which is another kind of power. Everything that his characters want is to have power, to rule from some kind of castle and to use the power to have occasional sex orgies. And some spice too, spice is of course power as well. And the whole thing ends with the right person getting all the power and thus solving all the problems Drinking Beverage

I really think Simmons is better at that, he has a big factor of humanity against senseless power right there. It gets a little sentimental and mystical, but he's good to pull that off. Simon is of course a huge critic of Church and organized religion and he makes one of main themes out of that. You guys who's main beef is the religion, will be delighted.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2014, 01:17 AM
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
(31-07-2014 02:09 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I liked the whole series, even the short story afterwards, Orphans of the Helix. I count it among some of the best stuff, on par with Dune.

I find Dune a bit dry... (pun intendend Rolleyes ) That is, Herbert is a master of epic form of writing, but the essence, the ideals are not there. He uses religions as just another power structure to move around masses of people and make them do senseless things to make and resolve his plots and give power to his chosen characters. Religions are just another source of power and there are plenty other sources of power in his universe. Herbert believes in power and sex, which is another kind of power. Everything that his characters want is to have power, to rule from some kind of castle and to use the power to have occasional sex orgies. And some spice too, spice is of course power as well. And the whole thing ends with the right person getting all the power and thus solving all the problems Drinking Beverage

I really think Simmons is better at that, he has a big factor of humanity against senseless power right there. It gets a little sentimental and mystical, but he's good to pull that off. Simon is of course a huge critic of Church and organized religion and he makes one of main themes out of that. You guys who's main beef is the religion, will be delighted.

I disagree with the religion was meant as a source of power bit. I understood it as a manifestation of power. An outlet. It doesn't create power, it directs it.

Whether it's a powerful ruling class needing a mechanism to enslave millions -or- an identity for millions of enslaved to rally around, united, to rise up to become free.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2014, 05:16 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 05:21 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Hyperion - Dan Simmons
(01-08-2014 01:17 AM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  I disagree with the religion was meant as a source of power bit. I understood it as a manifestation of power. An outlet. It doesn't create power, it directs it.

Whether it's a powerful ruling class needing a mechanism to enslave millions -or- an identity for millions of enslaved to rally around, united, to rise up to become free.
Source or direction of power, doesn't matter. This is how religion looks like from the outside, people telling others what to do. Religion is the Spice of the people Wink

For example, right now I read Julian May's series of Galactic Milieu. This man is religious. But it's not this behavioral randomly generated Zensunni/Buddallah religion of Frank Herbert. It is actually an interpretation of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's idea of "divine milieu". An open-source internet-like religion.
I think Simmons comes over to the same point of view in the end, religion as a direct access to open-source cool stuff that sort of naturally exists, that the authorities want to control for themselves and that conservative people are too fearful to participate in.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: