I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-10-2015, 04:47 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 04:37 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  ...
Have we now gone to the darkside of DLJ?

Laugh out load

The trick was convincing you that there was a light side.

Evil_monster

bonus points if you heard the last two lines in your head too.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
26-10-2015, 05:03 AM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 05:45 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you're here asking us these things because you've been lied to by a preacher, and told that atheists have no meaning in their lives, etc, and that you're genuinely curious to see if the preacher lied to you or not. Spoiler Alert: they did.

Can't guarantee you'll find our answers as pleasing as pre-digested religious answers, but here goes:

a) How is everything everything

The same way red is red. "Everything" is a term we made up for all that we observe around us-- we had to call it something! If you mean "how did it come to be", then that's not a question for atheism, that's a question for physicists. We just tend to listen to scientists about the nature of the world around us because we have no reason to pre-reject what they have to say.

b) What is existence

Cogito ergo sum. I think, therefore I am. Descartes' basic application of identity, in an animal that can recognize its own existence. We've since found that quite a few animals are capable of this. Now, again, if you mean "Why is there something rather than nothing?", that's pretty much the subtitle of an excellent book you need to read on the subject, called A Universe From Nothing: Why is There Something Rather Than Nothing? by Lawrence Krauss.

c) What purpose do you have in life

What purpose does anyone have? Whatever we assign to it. Religious people simply accept that their purpose is whatever vague notions are assigned to them by their social group's faith-tradition. Most people, atheists included, come up with their purpose in life on their own. If you mean, "are we born FOR a purpose?" then the answer is no; purpose is meaning we assign, not inherent.

d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws

I don't obey religion-based laws, because I'm an American, and the USA prohibits religious laws. At least, hypothetically it does.

I think you mean to say, here, that you think all laws are religion-based, and thus why do we obey THE law... we disagree strongly with your premise, and find that laws are clearly the product of human minds and social structures. Most of us openly say that religious law is clearly immoral, unethical, and/or undeserving of a place among the corpus of secular human government regulations.

e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not

Created implies the conscious intent of an actor; in that sense, no, I do not think the universe was created. What I know of particle physics seems to indicate that the properties we call universal laws are emergent properties of the way particles and the force/energy fields they generate interact. A casual and unbiased look at the universe, I think, reveals it to be totally random... and that's okay.

f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation

Wut? I think you're confused. Natural explanations are always the default, in lieu of a REALLY good reason for me to think that anything that has ever happened is non-natural. I don't need to disprove that magic caused something; you need to prove that magic even exists before I'm going to take up trying to explain why it is or isn't a thing. We observe that everything is flying away from the Singularity, from which our universe expanded, but I don't see a reason to inject magic into that equation, let alone a Creator.

g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?

Hell, I'll take it a step farther... we don't even really know what's in the box! We may never know what's outside the box. Listening to Christians (and other believers) mumble about what's outside the box is like listening to two dogs discussing what's beyond the tall fence that surrounds their yard. One dog speculates that "Doggy Dreamland" is beyond the fence, full of bacon treats and (literal) bitches, while the other looks around the yard and asks why what's beyond the fence would be much different from what is actually observed in the yard? It doesn't mean that either dog is right, but the second dog is much more rational about it... and he can be pretty sure that "Doggy Dreamland" isn't what's over the fence, no matter how excitedly the first dog talks about it.

h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?

To even ask this question, you have to somewhat deny our humanity. I want you to stop and really think about what you just asked us. This is the reason I think you have been "gotten to" by the propaganda of preachers who have every reason to make their flocks fear and loathe atheists. Humans are social animals. We evolved to be members of small, interdependent tribes of people, and as such we have a deep empathy for others we consider within our circle/tribe (which has gotten much bigger, as a concept, over the millennia since we developed agriculture/civilization) and a moral conscience that derives from that.

The people who do not feel this way are called sociopaths, or psychopaths. Those are personality disorders, and have nothing to do with atheism.

So yes, we do care deeply about wrongdoing. I would argue we care more about it than Believers do, since we don't have the concept of vicarious atonement (forgiveness of sins by an external agent, paid for by someone else) or of a place in the afterlife where we'll be happy despite earthly misery. To an atheist, the obligation is upon human beings to make the world better (or worse), as all the evil or good on earth is caused by humans. Want to be happier? Make good happen in this world. Some call this philosophical outlook "Secular Humanism".

i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.

I don't despise a particular faith; I despise zealots of the fundamentalist stripe, in every religion.

A zealot is someone who won't even consider the possibility that they're wrong about their religious views. They believe they hold The Absolute Truth From God Himself™, and as such are entitled -- even morally obligated -- to intervene in the lives of others, based on what they believe to be The Will of God™. Even if this means repression or intimidation or murder, the zealot is ready to do his/her duty to God. It need not take the most vile and violent form for me to loathe it-- here in the USA, it rarely leads to overt violence, but the campaign to smear the names of those who are of "the wrong faith" is endless, in parts of this country. They try to change the laws into religious ones, they try to favor their clan over others in myriad ways, they try to indoctrinate people by using whatever source of coercive force they can lay hold of (including the government institutions and positions of authority), and they will even fire atheists from good jobs if we're found out.

Fundamentalism is a disease that rots the human mind and makes it capable of atrocities. From 9/11/2001 to Matthew Shepherd (and the thousands of LGBTQ kids who are kicked out of homes and/or subjected to street violence, social pressure to the point of suicide, and outright murder as a result of our widespread religious prejudices in this society), almost every major tragedy I can name is in some way attached to our religious outlook on things-- even with the sexual frustration apparent in this string of recent school shooting perpetrators. Even the Ku Klux Klan believes they have religious sanction for their outlook; if you don't believe me, then Google "Church of Christ, Christian".

j) Are you sure that God does not exist.

Nope. Just sure that all the human versions I've heard so far are clearly bullshit projections of our own human prejudices and fears.

k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?

Arguably, the proof that God is indistinguishable from random chance exists all around us, so why do you disagree?

l) What do you believe?

I'll let others say it for me, who have expressed it better than I can:

“Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful - just stupid)." - Robert Heinlein

"But I, I believe in love. For what else can I do? I'm so in love with you." - Carly Simon

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." - Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman (emphasis in bold is my own)

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 12 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
26-10-2015, 05:06 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 04:29 AM)DLJ Wrote:  b) What is existence

All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel.
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save.
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy, beg, borrow or steal.
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say.
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight.
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come

(if there's anyone who read that and could not hear the tune in your head ... I don't want to know you.)

Amen, brother!! Pink Floyd reference worth a QFT and some bonus Likes.

How one can read that and not hear the tune, I'd rather not speculate upon.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
26-10-2015, 05:14 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  As told to in my introduction thread, I'm posting my questions here. But to start with, you must understand that I believe in "god"--but not a flying bearded man that smites, but more a divine creator.

I'm not looking for you to disprove religion, as I'm not religious and I couldn't give a flying f-bomb about whether Jesus walked on water or whether we burn for eternity if we're bad on Earth. I just want straight answers about what you think, as a person.

I'm not even going to bother with your "questions". They're really not questions. They are just trapdoor lead-ins to pointless endless questioning.

Instead, let's look at your opening paragraph -- which is actually far more telling.

First off you claim to "believe in god, but not (the trite, foolish one, everyone else believes in). Here's the typical crap we've come to know and expect from the devout . You don't believe in some "not a flying bearded man that smites" -- but the "real" god. Funny that -- every dork that comes in here who's a believer claims to believe in the REAL god and all those other folks are a bunch of mislead losers who ain't gonna get to sit at the right hand of the creator when they die. Guess what bucky?? Your Jebus is just as fictional as all the others.
Think not? Fine -- PROVE IT. We're not making extraordinary claims. You are. Bring that spooky cockknocker in here for us to all see. Otherwise -- you've just got another invisible friend.

And you say "I'm not religious" -- of COURSE you are. You've got your own little religion going on. You just want exclusivity. You don't want to share your invisible buddy.

Great. We're not interested.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like onlinebiker's post
26-10-2015, 05:23 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
Looks like the OP added two new questions since I replied:

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?

Theists do not seem to understand what 'proof' actually means.

proof evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.

All existence proves is that existence exists. Which isn't saying much.

It's like saying that there are presents at the bottom of my bed therefore it is proof that Santa Claus exists. No. It's just proof of a present delivery mechanism the nature of which is as yet undetermined.

There are far more plausible, simpler explanations that fit with the available evidence. For example:
  • You have parents and the presents you receive correspond to what your parents are able to afford.
  • Santa Claus violates the laws of Physics to the extent where if he did exist then modern day society would not be able to function.
  • You don't have a live fire or a chimney.
  • You've covered the roof in bear traps and none of them have caught a reindeer yet but one did splatter a poor seagull.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  l) What do you believe?

I believe in the effectiveness of the scientific method.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Mathilda's post
26-10-2015, 05:29 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions


a) How is everything everything

evolution

b) What is existence

awareness

c) What purpose do you have in life

Whatever purpose I choose at the time

d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws

I don't

e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not

No

f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation

We can't

g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?

Exploration

h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?

I have empathy. I judge based on that.

i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.

Any religion that encourages people to act adversely to our innate empathy. Fill in your own blanks.

j) Are you sure that God does not exist.

No, I just don't believe it.

k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?

Haven't seen any gods around me.

l) What do you believe?

That the coffee I am drinking will wake me up properly.


None of the above defines atheism in any way. Atheism merely means that there is no belief in any gods.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Dom's post
26-10-2015, 06:26 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 04:25 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Now I have a few questions for you:

1) Do scientific gaps in the human compendium of knowledge frighten you?
2) In general do you currently adhere to the religion your parents brought you up in?
3) How do distinguish fact from fantasy?

Looking forward to your answers...tit for tat and all that.

1) Yes they frighten me, our sciences are based on observation, but how everything got here, and how the empty space got here too, frightens me.
2) No, my parents are atheists, and I am not religious. I do however fear the potential mistake of not being religious to some degree... millions believe we'll burn for eternity, whether bullshit or not, it stills scares me.
3) I distinguish fact as an accurate representation of something that is, this in itself could be a fantasy. Fantasy, I believe to be a manifestation based on facts that a human then compiles into something that is not factually accurate by the human standards of what a fact is, although all 'facts' are in some-way fallible, and they will continue to be until humans ultimately figure out exactly what each little thing does.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes True Miller's post
26-10-2015, 06:26 AM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 06:39 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  As told to in my introduction thread, I'm posting my questions here. But to start with, you must understand that I believe in "god"--. a "plug-in *gap-filler explanation for everything that I happen to be too lazy to study about and look for a better reason for.

Fixed that for you Untrue Miller.
We don't abide by "religious laws". The origins of law in human cultures started in CIVIL society and are there to maintain order. AFTER societies adopted laws and customs THEN religion took them up and appropriated them into their holy books. It's called "sanctioning".
Take:
1. Anthropology 101
2. then History 101.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
26-10-2015, 06:35 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 06:26 AM)True Miller Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 04:25 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Now I have a few questions for you:

1) Do scientific gaps in the human compendium of knowledge frighten you?
2) In general do you currently adhere to the religion your parents brought you up in?
3) How do distinguish fact from fantasy?

Looking forward to your answers...tit for tat and all that.

1) Yes they frighten me, our sciences are based on observation, but how everything got here, and how the empty space got here too, frightens me.
2) No, my parents are atheists, and I am not religious. I do however fear the potential mistake of not being religious to some degree... millions believe we'll burn for eternity, whether bullshit or not, it stills scares me.
3) I distinguish fact as an accurate representation of something that is, this in itself could be a fantasy. Fantasy, I believe to be a manifestation based on facts that a human then compiles into something that is not factually accurate by the human standards of what a fact is, although all 'facts' are in some-way fallible, and they will continue to be until humans ultimately figure out exactly what each little thing does.

1) Does it make you feel better to think a benevolent creator is watching over you?
2) Interesting. Have you heard of Pascal’s Wager? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
3) I take the scientific approach to determining was is factual and what is not. http://physics.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/N...node6.html I’m not very clear on your definition and explanation however.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Full Circle's post
26-10-2015, 06:36 AM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 06:41 AM by True Miller.)
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 04:29 AM)DLJ Wrote:  k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?
Key word "arguably".
I think the argument is over. Now it's just about teasing the afflicted.

I disagree, but yes, in our objective reality, everything always being here makes a tonne of logical sense. But, as humans, restrained by the objective reality, we cannot use earth-based sciences to explain how this eternal matter that has "simply always been here" became existent. Hence why I brandish this divine creation as being a product of God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: