I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
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26-10-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 06:36 AM)True Miller Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 04:29 AM)DLJ Wrote:  k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?
Key word "arguably".
I think the argument is over. Now it's just about teasing the afflicted.

I disagree, but yes, in our objective reality, everything always being here makes a tonne of logical sense. But, as humans, restrained by the objective reality, we cannot use earth-based sciences to explain how this eternal matter that has "simply always been here" became existent. Hence why I brandish this divine creation as being a product of God.
And how did your god became existent?

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26-10-2015, 06:53 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
a) How is everything everything

The Big Bang and the physical parameters of our universe are how the universe is as the universe appears.

b) What is existence

The opposite of nonexistence. It is occurrence within the universe.

c) What purpose do you have in life

Survive. Have fun.

d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws

I don't. If you want honest discussion with atheists, don't make such asinine presumptions.

e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not

No, because I am an atheist. You aren't asking questions to better understand atheists here. You are asking something about your own beliefs.

f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation

That is not how science works. We can't disprove that for which no evidence or logical argument exists. If you want that disproved, you'll need to demonstrate (with evidence that logically connects to your conclusion) that this is plausible. Until such time as actual evidence exists for said myth, it is treated as a fiction.

g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?

Once again, you're not asking questions to better understand atheists, you are still asking questions to promote your religious quackery.

For instance, why do you assume your analogy comparing the universe to an "impenetrable, inescapable box" is valid? We have no evidence that this is so.

h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?

Depends on what you mean by "wrong-doing." But once again, you are asking questions that promote your beliefs, not questions to understand atheists. You are loading your questions to give a preconceived response it would seem.

i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.

Your bias is thick in your questions. I despise religions like yours the most (I am non-discriminate in my despising of religion, I despise them all equally). The religion of "I don't have a religion but I still have all of these religious beliefs and views that I try to preach to others as if I am being subtle." It's pretentious, its asinine, and it's dishonest.

j) Are you sure that God does not exist.

Once again, you're asking questions not to understand atheists, but to allow for you to post your preconceived objections.

I am as certain god(s) do(es) not exist as I am certain that Bigfoot/loch ness monster/chupacabra/fairies/leprechauns/etc do not exist.

k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?

Not even trying to hide the fact that you aren't trying to learn anymore. Now you are just blatantly admitting you are here to preach and not learn. Fucking dishonest theists are a dime a dozen.

If you look at the universe and see a god, then you are ignorant of it.

l) What do you believe?

That theists have a problem with reality and a problem with honesty. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-10-2015, 08:16 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  As told to in my introduction thread, I'm posting my questions here. But to start with, you must understand that I believe in "god"--but not a flying bearded man that smites, but more a divine creator.

I'm not looking for you to disprove religion, as I'm not religious and I couldn't give a flying f-bomb about whether Jesus walked on water or whether we burn for eternity if we're bad on Earth. I just want straight answers about what you think, as a person.

I've grown to assume that Atheists are people that rely on fact, and that they constantly criticise religion for that lack of it. So, I just want to understand your Atheist perspective on these questions.

a) How is everything everything
b) What is existence
c) What purpose do you have in life
d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws
e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not
f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation
g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?
h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?
i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.
j) Are you sure that God does not exist.
k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?
l) What do you believe?

More questions may come, but these ones are the ones at the front of my mind. Please try to stay on topic, I want to advance my understanding of atheism.


There are more options than just New Atheism versus a Creator.

As a Buddhist, I put New Atheism in the same philosophical camp as a Creator.
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26-10-2015, 08:17 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  As told to in my introduction thread, I'm posting my questions here. But to start with, you must understand that I believe in "god"--but not a flying bearded man that smites, but more a divine creator.

I'm not looking for you to disprove religion, as I'm not religious and I couldn't give a flying f-bomb about whether Jesus walked on water or whether we burn for eternity if we're bad on Earth. I just want straight answers about what you think, as a person.

I've grown to assume that Atheists are people that rely on fact, and that they constantly criticise religion for that lack of it. So, I just want to understand your Atheist perspective on these questions.

a) How is everything everything
b) What is existence
c) What purpose do you have in life
d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws
e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not
f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation
g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?
h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?
i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.
j) Are you sure that God does not exist.
k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?
l) What do you believe?

More questions may come, but these ones are the ones at the front of my mind. Please try to stay on topic, I want to advance my understanding of atheism.

I will use my last post in this thread as a base and answer your questions at a later point today.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid865447

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26-10-2015, 08:20 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  a) How is everything everything

I don't know. I don't believe it is currently possible to know the answer to that question without dubious levels of speculation.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  b) What is existence

I'm not sure how good of a definition I have for that. My first stab at it would be something like "the collection of everything found in space-time" or "everything found in the universe", but I don't know that there aren't more universes or things outside of space-time. If those things do "exist" they're opaque and incoherent to us.

It's one of those things I'll withhold judgment on until I see some evidence.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  c) What purpose do you have in life

Any purpose I give myself. Right now, it's mostly about trying to have fun with friends, family, and my interests while leaving the world a better place.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws

It depends on the law. Some of them might happen to align with my view, so it's something I'd be doing anyway. Others, I'd follow because I don't want to get in trouble. So, take something like "swearing on a Bible" in court: I think the idea is stupid, but I'd do it anyway, because I don't feel like being jailed for contempt of court.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not

No. I see no evidence of a "creator", so I have no reason to believe that.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation

I don't need to disprove it. There's no evidence that is the case. If someone asserts a creator, the burden of proof is on them. This question is like asking "How can we disprove there are no leprechauns when we clearly see rainbows?".


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?

We could not, although I don't think this has the implications you likely think it does.

In other words, maybe there's something outside of that "box" and maybe there's not, but you can't know it. And if there is something, you can't know it's what you assume it is.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?

It's kind of a broad question, but that is probably the biggest determining factor for me.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.

It's not something I've given a lot of thought about. Christianity makes it high on my list because I'm most exposed to it and Islam is high up there, as well. That being said, while I don't know all of the finer points of whatever religion the Aztecs followed, I find cutting people's hearts out to appease various gods pretty stupid. I'll go with Christianity because I'm most familiar with it:
1) The "morality" employed involves doing what an invisible man says to, even though the rules don't apply to him, and when you die, you are rewarded or punished not based on your moral behavior, but whether or not you swore the correct oath of fealty before you died.
2) People are told that they are worthless in and of themselves without Jesus and his love, and that their actions and accomplishments are pointless.
3) That any human for any reason ever needs to be tortured for infinity years.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  j) Are you sure that God does not exist.

Which god are we talking about? I'm not sure any of them exist, because all of the "successful" gods are nonfalsifiable. As soon as "god" stops being "a dude in a white toga with a beard living in a temple on Mt Olympus" and becomes "an invisible entity that is only seen when it wants to be, that exists outside of space and time", you leave the realm of right and wrong. This type of idea is not even wrong. It cannot be reasonably evaluated.

Similarly, I can describe leprechauns as sufficiently elusive and magical, and you cannot "know" they don't exist. That doesn't mean I need to spend any time worrying about leprechauns when making decisions in the really real world.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?

Arguably, no, there is not proof all around of of God's existence, so why to theists disagree? All of your "proof" is presupposition and assertion.

I've mentioned them twice already: see, leprechauns.


(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  l) What do you believe?

That's a super broad question. What do I believe about what?

I believe pepperoni is a superior pizza topping to mushrooms.
I believe slavery is wrong.
I believe my seven-year-old daughter is older than my four-year-old daughter.
I believe it is silly to believe leprechauns are real.
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26-10-2015, 08:25 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 08:16 AM)enochian Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  As told to in my introduction thread, I'm posting my questions here. But to start with, you must understand that I believe in "god"--but not a flying bearded man that smites, but more a divine creator.

I'm not looking for you to disprove religion, as I'm not religious and I couldn't give a flying f-bomb about whether Jesus walked on water or whether we burn for eternity if we're bad on Earth. I just want straight answers about what you think, as a person.

I've grown to assume that Atheists are people that rely on fact, and that they constantly criticise religion for that lack of it. So, I just want to understand your Atheist perspective on these questions.

a) How is everything everything
b) What is existence
c) What purpose do you have in life
d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws
e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not
f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation
g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?
h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?
i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.
j) Are you sure that God does not exist.
k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?
l) What do you believe?

More questions may come, but these ones are the ones at the front of my mind. Please try to stay on topic, I want to advance my understanding of atheism.


There are more options than just New Atheism versus a Creator.

As a Buddhist, I put New Atheism in the same philosophical camp as a Creator.

Good thing you are not the arbiter of all things atheism

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-10-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
Neither New Atheism or Abrahamic religions understand the logic of Anutpada.

So from the Buddhist perspective they are the same.
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26-10-2015, 08:43 AM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 09:28 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 06:36 AM)True Miller Wrote:  I disagree, but yes, in our objective reality, everything always being here makes a tonne of logical sense. But, as humans, restrained by the objective reality, we cannot use earth-based sciences to explain how this eternal matter that has "simply always been here" became existent. Hence why I brandish this divine creation as being a product of God.

"Eternal matter" (just like your god) did not "become extant". "Becoming" requires TIME to be in place already. How did THAT happen ?
It's a meaningless string of words you use. In discussing the matter you may use NO WORD that invokes the concept of time. Too bad for you.
"Creation" is an action verb. "Creation" requires time to be in place already. How can you "create time" unless it exists already ? Obviously, the only reason you insert "god" into your sentences, is you have no better explanation. That's called a "god of the gaps". Your god is a gap-filler. In theology, "eternal" is "timeless", not "just forever in time".
In Cycles of Time, Roger Penrose, (Stephen Hawking's friend), posits that Reality has always existed, and recycles.

If your "god always existed", then along with that god, *nonexistence* was also always part of Reality. Where did THAT come from ? In other words, an extant god explains nothing. Reality, in which a god *exists* remains unexplained.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board.

How old are you ? "Brandish" ? Really ? More like "flail a wet noodle".
Define what a "god" is. In doing so, invoke no term or word that requires time or anything else that remains unexplained.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-10-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 08:28 AM)enochian Wrote:  Neither New Atheism or Abrahamic religions understand the logic of Anutpada.

So from the Buddhist perspective they are the same.

The Buddhist perspective isn't how atheism is defined.

Fucks given about the buddhist perspective relative to the definition of atheism (new or old) = 0

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-10-2015, 08:52 AM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 06:36 AM)True Miller Wrote:  ... we cannot ... explain
...
Hence why I brandish this divine creation as being a product of God.

Argument from ignorance.

Quote:(Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,
true
false
unknown between true or false
being unknowable (among the first three).

In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof.

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