I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
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26-10-2015, 03:02 PM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 02:57 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 10:21 AM)True Miller Wrote:  My assumption of god is that (as mentioned in your responded to post) it is not restricted by the same bounds that our perception of reality presents.

So what's the difference between a God that can't be proven to exist within the bounds of our reality and a God that doesn't exist at all??


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26-10-2015, 03:19 PM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
a) How is everything everything?

How is it everything. What does that even mean? Because that's the definition of the word?

b) What is existence?

I guess existence is everything that is defined and has yet to be defined.

c) What purpose do you have in life?

I guess there is two answers to this one. Firstly I have none. That being if something was to look at the Universe and find little me and ponder my ultimate purpose in life.

If I'm to define it myself however my purpose would be a collection of goals I set for myself and some that society has pushed onto me.

d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws?

Which religion-based laws do I abide by?
Any religion law I abide by would be a national law. . . I guess. And thous I will abide by it.

e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not?

Nope.

f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation?

I don't know start from one end I guess. I'm not sure we can disprove something that unsubstantial.

g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?


Why would I do that?

h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?

As an atheist I care only about the question of gods. As a human it's an different matter. Except I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Say if I hate animal cruelty has that to do with human consequences?

i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.

I don't despise any religion. I despise people misusing power.

j) Are you sure that God does not exist.

God as in the Bible? Yeah I'm pretty sure he doesn't exist. Actually if there was any god or gods I'm not sure it has the desire to be in contact with its creation in anyway we would understand. But I haven't seen any evidence for that either so I don't think that is the case either, nor do I think it would matter

k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?

Because the arguments aren't that good.

l) What do you believe?

I believe my daughter is alive this moment.
I believe that I have milk in the fridge.
I believe I'm done with your questions now.
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26-10-2015, 03:43 PM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 03:50 PM by enochian.)
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 12:52 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 12:43 PM)enochian Wrote:  Pretentious New Atheists think its profound to reject a Creator.

Yet ancient Indian philosophies such as Buddhism, Samkhya, Advaita Vedanta, Jainism, Vaisesika etc. long ago proved a Creator was the stupidest philosophy around.

"rejecting a Creator" implies that there is one to reject.

I simply don't find a creator plausible or evident.

There's nothing profound about not believing in something that's implausible.

It's just logical.

Ancient Indian Buddhists, Samkhyans, Vedantins, Jains, Vaisesikas etc. pointed this out a couple thousand years ago.

Western atheism is late to the party.
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26-10-2015, 03:50 PM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 03:59 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:43 PM)enochian Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 12:52 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  "rejecting a Creator" implies that there is one to reject.

I simply don't find a creator plausible or evident.

There's nothing profound about not believing in something that's implausible.

It's just logical.

Ancient Indian Buddhists, Samkhyans, Vedantins, Jains, etc. pointed this out a couple thousand years ago.

Western atheism is late to the party.

Bully for them. So it's a race ? And you actually think that these "ancients" would really care about who got there first ?
I can just see them fist-pumping "we won, we won".
Not

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-10-2015, 03:50 PM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:19 PM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  
g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?


Why would I do that?

WHY did I not think of this answer!?! Brilliant, WestWind!

To even consider the concept of "put it in the box and don't tell it" as a valid scenario implies some pretty awful things about the owner of the box!

Even worse is, "Tell it, but only by whispering into the minds of some tribal warrior/shepherds near a desert crossroads, to be written down, eventually, by other people, in languages that most of the world will never speak. And make half of the message completely out-of-tune with the rest of the world they can observe!"

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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26-10-2015, 04:39 PM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 04:42 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:43 PM)enochian Wrote:  Ancient Indian Buddhists, Samkhyans, Vedantins, Jains, Vaisesikas etc. pointed this out a couple thousand years ago.

Western atheism is late to the party.
You are acting like atheism is a creed, or something that is taught. Why should I care if somebody else realized there was no god before I did? It's not like my atheism becomes invalidated or less of an observation just because atheistic philosophies/religions existed thousands of years ago. It's especially hard to care, considering that these philosophies/religions probably all have supernatural claims on par with the deity claim.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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26-10-2015, 04:42 PM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
double post.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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26-10-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:50 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 03:19 PM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  
g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?


Why would I do that?

WHY did I not think of this answer!?! Brilliant, WestWind!

To even consider the concept of "put it in the box and don't tell it" as a valid scenario implies some pretty awful things about the owner of the box!

Even worse is, "Tell it, but only by whispering into the minds of some tribal warrior/shepherds near a desert crossroads, to be written down, eventually, by other people, in languages that most of the world will never speak. And make half of the message completely out-of-tune with the rest of the world they can observe!"
Well to me it just seems such a being don't really care about the something in the box. That's perhaps not as bad as overly caring.

And yes that telling a select few people who will have their stories written by other people and then have (some of?) those stories combined into a book by yet another set of people. It's all so very stupid instead of just checking in on its creation once in a while to make sure all is well. I find it so very hard to understand how a fairly well educated population can still believe in these stories. No matter if they are from The US or from Denmark. Well I assume the well educated part. I guess it's the fear of ones own insignificance that's hard to grasp.
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26-10-2015, 05:18 PM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  a) How is everything everything

By tautology.

... seriously, I don't even get what you're asking here. I know of a few common apologetic arguments (cosmological and two ontological) just off the top of my head that you might be referencing, but your phrasing makes it impossible for me to get what you're asking me.

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  b) What is existence

Again, pretty vague phrasing. I'm going to go with a semantic interpretation of the question, ie, you asking what I think the word "existence" means at its core.

I am (and so apparently is everyone else) a consciousness, experiencing and interacting with a stream of experience and apparently capable of interacting with it, making decisions that affect my future experiences. This experiential stream and my interactions with it also appear to conform to a model of an exterior, consistent reality, and the existence or non-existence of objects, people, patterns, etc within that reality is a nearly-axiomatic concept within that model -- meaning that it's a fundamental concept that isn't defined save in terms of its own assertion. To the extent that it can be defined (since I have some flexibility in exactly how I describe the model), a thing exists if it is my own consciousness, if it is a direct experience I have, or if it influences or impacts my experiences directly or indirectly. This is not to say that these are the ONLY things that exist, but it is sufficient condition for saying that they exist. Existence in reality can be extended from this basic knowable concept as the necessary trait for impacting or interacting with other objects within a larger reality, even if I am not impacted even indirectly.

Also, existence can be taken as the collective set of things possessing the quality of existing as described above.

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  c) What purpose do you have in life

In very general terms, I have preference for certain experiences over others, and I wish to experience those preferred experiences over the less-prefered ones. More specifically, I enjoy helping people and hate seeing them suffer or even realizing that suffering is happening outside of my immediate awareness, and so I work to change the world so that happens less often.

Also, I'm addicted to Minecraft.

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws

It depends on the religion-based laws. Some of them I think are good laws regardless of whether they are religious in origin. Others are benign, not causing significant harm to me or anyone else, and so aren't worth the hassle of fighting. Others are problematic, but not nearly as much so as the legal difficulties of not obeying. Finally, some are so morally repugnant that I would not abide them at all. In this country, though, religion-based law is itself against the law, and it is becoming increasingly important to hold that line against theocratic law-makers. So as a matter of larger principle I am much less inclined to tolerate a religion-based law than I would be on the merits of the law itself.

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not

Depends on your definition of the word "created". Seriously there's a whole bunch of different meanings, some of which apply and some don't. If you mean do I think there were a bunch of natural forces that caused a bunch of stuff to change into its present form, yes. Silicon atoms being created in the death throes of a star, for example. If you mean, do I think there was an intelligent agency whisking everything into existence ex-nilho? No.

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation

Give me working definitions of "divine" and "creator" and it might, or might not, be possible to produce such a disproof, depending on those definitions.

I hold an agnostic-atheist position in which it's not possible to disprove all gods, but I don't consider any concept of a god that I have yet to encounter to be true or close to proven or even remotely likely, and I'm dubious that I shall ever encounter a convincing one. For me and for most identifying atheists, the word atheist means "I'm nowhere close to convinced that a god exists" or "I have no belief in any god". Disproving it, while potentially useful in a debate, isn't something we claim to have done in all cases. Some, yes, but not all.

(Also, flying away from the point of creation isn't what Big Bang cosmology says is happening.)

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?

There might be a few ways. The box itself would be subject to study, and we could perhaps learn of or extrapolate principles that held true outside of the box. But depending how it was set up, that challenge could well be impossible. (Also, the metaphor of a box probably isn't a good one, since you can encounter the box's walls.)

That said, if nothing outside of the box ever affected me or anything I cared about, I wouldn't have much grounds to care if it was there or not. And if it DID, I would have a way of knowing it was there.

An interesting and ultimately semantic question to ask here is, if something is outside of the universe, does it count as existing?

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?

I'm against animal cruelty, if that's what you're asking. But I think that what counts as wrong-doing is defined largely in terms of its likely or reasonably-expected consequences, in terms of the happiness or suffering it causes. I can extend this to the idea of a policy or law, which might get it wrong in one or two instances but should be adhered to and enforced even then because it is generally of positive benefit. But I don't think there's a bunch of extra rules tacked on to that basic guideline that will make something wrong if it makes all the world happy, or right if it makes all the world suffer.

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.

Religions are not discretely countable entities. I mean, would I count Catholicism, Lutheranism, and Calvinism as three separate religions, or are they all just pieces of one Christian religion? Are Christianity, Islam, and Judaism three separate religions, or are they all part of a larger Abrahamic religion? This isn't the sort of situation that lends itself easily to numeric assignments.

But okay, I'll take the freedom to do so and assign my greatest contempt to the three Abrahamic monotheisms. Taken together they have extremely broad and populous influence, serving to either catalyze, fuel, and aggravate many wars and vile acts. Their histories include extensive acts of genocide, suppression of fundamental human rights, and subscription to hierarchical institutions which destroy individual morality, and though some of its members have occasionally been in the lead on moral questions, and even done so on the basis of a peculiar interpretation of the religion, by far these faiths have tended to impede human progress rather than advance it. While other religions are not above reproach, the exclusivity of Abrahmic monotheism will bring it in conflict with everyone, and they remain some of the most caustic threats to freedom, liberty, happiness, and peace in the world today.

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  j) Are you sure that God does not exist.

Which god? If you are asking about the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god of the Abrahmic religions, then yes. The concept is logically incoherent, contradicting with itself and observed reality in a great many ways. If you are talking about some sort of vague deistic god that "lit the fuse" on the Big Bang and then walked away, no. There would be no way to tell either way. I think it highly unlikely, though, so you can say I'm somewhat sure of it... just not that I'm at 100% surety. Are you asking about a different concept of a god? I know so many and I don't want to get bogged down in listing them all and hoping I guess the one you're talking about by accident, so how about you just state what your concept of a god is and I'll tell you how sure I am about that one?

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?

The question isn't whether existence is all around us. The question is whether existence constitutes proof of god. It does not. The reason it does not is that there are other conclusions that can be drawn from existence -- it doesn't logically imply or even suggest a god and no other possibility. Even, hypothetically, if it WERE created by a god, existence in itself would not be clinching proof of that.

(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  l) What do you believe?

That havarti or pepper-jack are the best cheeses in existence, depending on what you use them for. ... oh and a bunch of other stuff. Seriously, there's not enough room to put everything I believe in one post. It would crash the internet. If you want to know what I believe ON A SPECIFIC SUBJECT, go ahead and ask and I'll field that question.
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26-10-2015, 05:31 PM
RE: I Am Not An Atheist, Please Answer My Questions
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  a) How is everything everything
It isn't.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  b) What is existence
An illusion.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  c) What purpose do you have in life
Not to have a purpose.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  d) Why do you abide by religion-based laws
I don't.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  e) Do you believe that everything was created, whether pre-determined or not
No.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  f) How can we disprove that everything was made by a divine creator when we are all sat on a flying ball of rock, flying away from the point of creation
Jump off the rock.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  g) If you put something in an impenetrable, inescapable box forever (a vast infinite universe), and you never tell it what made the box, or what the box is, how can it ever know anything more than what is in the box?
You can't. You never could.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  h) As an atheist, do you care about wrong-doing for anything more than the human consequences?
No.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  i) Which religion do you despise most, and give me 3 points as to why. Preferably not tainted by media propaganda.
Atheism.
1) They ask probing questions which make me think for myself and develop my own metaphysics and world view.
2) They say I'm not going to Heaven.
3) earmuffs.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  j) Are you sure that God does not exist.
I AM God.
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  k) Arguably, the proof that God exists is all around us, existence, so why do Atheists disagree?
I don't. See j).
(26-10-2015 03:03 AM)True Miller Wrote:  l) What do you believe?
I don't..

Hope that helps.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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