I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
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31-05-2014, 11:51 AM
I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
I'm new here, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but has anyone read this book?
[Image: 41iOxFVRGtL.jpg]

http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Faith-Athei...4H2JQ2QN36


My dad (a minister) sent this to me and I promised to read it Drinking Beverage

I'm about 1/3 of the way through and am pretty mystified--not sure what to think (not that I'm close to being reconverted to Christianity)

I wasn't familiar with the Cosmological or Kalam Cosmological Argument before I read this book. From my perspective, it seems pretty easy to dismiss this defending the God of the Bible, but what about a deistic God? The best thing I've thought of (so far) is that the assumption that the universe needing a sentient creator is unnecessarily complex, but from a teleological perspective, I don't see that going over very well.

I'm anticipating a pretty lengthy debate with my dad when I finish this, so I'd like to gather all the ammunition I can before then Wink
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31-05-2014, 12:06 PM (This post was last modified: 31-05-2014 12:10 PM by Jeremy E Walker.)
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 11:51 AM)catgoblin Wrote:  I'm new here, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but has anyone read this book?
[Image: 41iOxFVRGtL.jpg]

http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Faith-Athei...4H2JQ2QN36


My dad (a minister) sent this to me and I promised to read it Drinking Beverage

I'm about 1/3 of the way through and am pretty mystified--not sure what to think (not that I'm close to being reconverted to Christianity)

I wasn't familiar with the Cosmological or Kalam Cosmological Argument before I read this book. From my perspective, it seems pretty easy to dismiss this defending the God of the Bible, but what about a deistic God? The best thing I've thought of (so far) is that the assumption that the universe needing a sentient creator is unnecessarily complex, but from a teleological perspective, I don't see that going over very well.

I'm anticipating a pretty lengthy debate with my dad when I finish this, so I'd like to gather all the ammunition I can before then Wink

I read it. I agree with most of what is written within it. It requires blind faith to be an atheist.

or rather let me rephrase that:

in order to be an atheist, one must believe certain things that are simply not rationally defensible.
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31-05-2014, 12:09 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
The cosmological argument is a special pleading fallacy. It becomes obvious if you phrase the argument thusly (and note that this is the argument; I have not altered it):

Everything that exists came from something.
The Universe exists.
Therefore the Universe came from something that was not created.

You see, by their own logic, their (theists who use this argument) god was created. And the god that created it. And the god that created the god that created it. And so on ad infinitum. Either that or their god does not exist. Which one do you think is more likely? An infinite series of increasingly powerful deities, or no deities?


Let me just end with this:
I have never seen or heard about one argument for the existence of any god that wasn't fallacious in some way or irrational. In fact, I recently challenged any and all theists on WWGHA to provide one such argument. It was more of an attempt to make them think, but one theist answered. Long story short, he failed. Badly.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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31-05-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 12:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  or rather let me rephrase that:

in order to be an atheist my facetious and caricatured deliberate misunderstanding of "atheist", one must believe certain things that are simply not rationally defensible.

Fixed that for you.

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31-05-2014, 12:16 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 11:51 AM)catgoblin Wrote:  I'm new here, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but has anyone read this book?
[Image: 41iOxFVRGtL.jpg]

http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Faith-Athei...4H2JQ2QN36


My dad (a minister) sent this to me and I promised to read it Drinking Beverage

I'm about 1/3 of the way through and am pretty mystified--not sure what to think (not that I'm close to being reconverted to Christianity)

I wasn't familiar with the Cosmological or Kalam Cosmological Argument before I read this book. From my perspective, it seems pretty easy to dismiss this defending the God of the Bible, but what about a deistic God? The best thing I've thought of (so far) is that the assumption that the universe needing a sentient creator is unnecessarily complex, but from a teleological perspective, I don't see that going over very well.

I'm anticipating a pretty lengthy debate with my dad when I finish this, so I'd like to gather all the ammunition I can before then Wink

The KCA has been utterly destroyed many many times by examining it's presuppositions. The first place it fails is in it's lack of definitions because it changes them from 1 statement to the next to try and squeeze God into the gap. At the start require a precise definition of all the terminology and then hold them to that.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...l-Argument

There is a debate on this very subject where the KCA advocate fled in terror from the arena. He was unable to give even baseline definitions to his phrases because KLA requires you to flip meanings halfway through.

It is also subject to the infinite regression problem. All things that exist (a meaningless statement) must have a creator. God exists therefore must have a creator and that creator must have a creator. They try and get by this with the special pleading fallacy that says "No god is exempt from the rule" which of course means the universe itself could be exempt and thus renders the entire argument moot.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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31-05-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 11:51 AM)catgoblin Wrote:  I'm new here, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but has anyone read this book?
[Image: 41iOxFVRGtL.jpg]

http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Faith-Athei...4H2JQ2QN36


My dad (a minister) sent this to me and I promised to read it Drinking Beverage

I'm about 1/3 of the way through and am pretty mystified--not sure what to think (not that I'm close to being reconverted to Christianity)

I wasn't familiar with the Cosmological or Kalam Cosmological Argument before I read this book. From my perspective, it seems pretty easy to dismiss this defending the God of the Bible, but what about a deistic God? The best thing I've thought of (so far) is that the assumption that the universe needing a sentient creator is unnecessarily complex, but from a teleological perspective, I don't see that going over very well.

I'm anticipating a pretty lengthy debate with my dad when I finish this, so I'd like to gather all the ammunition I can before then Wink

The book was written by Christians for Christians so they could feel smug about it.

There's a YouTube guy to took apart the book chapter by chapter. It was a great series to watch. I wish I could recall his name....

I think the series is called 'an atheist reads..'

Someone here, EvolutionKills? Help!


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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31-05-2014, 12:19 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 12:09 PM)One Above All Wrote:  The cosmological argument is a special pleading fallacy. It becomes obvious if you phrase the argument thusly (and note that this is the argument; I have not altered it):

Everything that exists came from something.
The Universe exists.
Therefore the Universe came from something that was not created.

You see, by their own logic, their (theists who use this argument) god was created. And the god that created it. And the god that created the god that created it. And so on ad infinitum. Either that or their god does not exist. Which one do you think is more likely? An infinite series of increasingly powerful deities, or no deities?


Let me just end with this:
I have never seen or heard about one argument for the existence of any god that wasn't fallacious in some way or irrational. In fact, I recently challenged any and all theists on WWGHA to provide one such argument. It was more of an attempt to make them think, but one theist answered. Long story short, he failed. Badly.

that is not the Kalam

that is a

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31-05-2014, 12:20 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 12:12 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 12:06 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  or rather let me rephrase that:

in order to be an atheist my facetious and caricatured deliberate misunderstanding of "atheist", one must believe certain things that are simply not rationally defensible.

Fixed that for you.

an atheist is one that does not believe in God. so no, this is not facetious, caricatured, or deliberate misunderstanding.
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31-05-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 12:16 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 11:51 AM)catgoblin Wrote:  I'm new here, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but has anyone read this book?
[Image: 41iOxFVRGtL.jpg]

http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Faith-Athei...4H2JQ2QN36


My dad (a minister) sent this to me and I promised to read it Drinking Beverage

I'm about 1/3 of the way through and am pretty mystified--not sure what to think (not that I'm close to being reconverted to Christianity)

I wasn't familiar with the Cosmological or Kalam Cosmological Argument before I read this book. From my perspective, it seems pretty easy to dismiss this defending the God of the Bible, but what about a deistic God? The best thing I've thought of (so far) is that the assumption that the universe needing a sentient creator is unnecessarily complex, but from a teleological perspective, I don't see that going over very well.

I'm anticipating a pretty lengthy debate with my dad when I finish this, so I'd like to gather all the ammunition I can before then Wink

The KCA has been utterly destroyed many many times by examining it's presuppositions. The first place it fails is in it's lack of definitions because it changes them from 1 statement to the next to try and squeeze God into the gap. At the start require a precise definition of all the terminology and then hold them to that.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...l-Argument

There is a debate on this very subject where the KCA advocate fled in terror from the arena. He was unable to give even baseline definitions to his phrases because KLA requires you to flip meanings halfway through.

It is also subject to the infinite regression problem. All things that exist (a meaningless statement) must have a creator. God exists therefore must have a creator and that creator must have a creator. They try and get by this with the special pleading fallacy that says "No god is exempt from the rule" which of course means the universe itself could be exempt and thus renders the entire argument moot.

this has already been addressed and is not a defeater of either premise.
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31-05-2014, 12:22 PM
RE: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist
(31-05-2014 12:17 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(31-05-2014 11:51 AM)catgoblin Wrote:  I'm new here, so I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but has anyone read this book?
[Image: 41iOxFVRGtL.jpg]

http://www.amazon.com/Enough-Faith-Athei...4H2JQ2QN36


My dad (a minister) sent this to me and I promised to read it Drinking Beverage

I'm about 1/3 of the way through and am pretty mystified--not sure what to think (not that I'm close to being reconverted to Christianity)

I wasn't familiar with the Cosmological or Kalam Cosmological Argument before I read this book. From my perspective, it seems pretty easy to dismiss this defending the God of the Bible, but what about a deistic God? The best thing I've thought of (so far) is that the assumption that the universe needing a sentient creator is unnecessarily complex, but from a teleological perspective, I don't see that going over very well.

I'm anticipating a pretty lengthy debate with my dad when I finish this, so I'd like to gather all the ammunition I can before then Wink

The book was written by Christians for Christians so they could feel smug about it.

There's a YouTube guy to took apart the book chapter by chapter. It was a great series to watch. I wish I could recall his name....

I think the series is called 'an atheist reads..'

Someone here, EvolutionKills? Help!

yea...and every book an atheist writes is for atheists so they can feel smug about it.

fail
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